What Should We Make of the Charge Linking the Bush Family Fortune to Nazism?





Mr. Parmet is Distinguished Professor Emeritus of History at the City University of New York and the author of George Bush: The Life of a Lone Star Yankee (1997) and Eisenhower and the American Crusades (1972).

Editor's Note: Over the course of the past month several articles have been published on the Internet and in a handful of print publications that raised questions about the financial ties between the founder of the Bush dynasty and certain Nazi businessmen. We wondered what to make of the story and asked Herbert Parmet to investigate. This is his report.

John Buchanan is a free-lance journalist with a mission. He intends to alert the media, and all who will listen, about how Prescott Bush, the progenitor of two presidents, was in league with some of Hitler’s “willing helpers.” Minimized or totally dismissed by the public, the story was revived from its World War II roots by Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin in their George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (1992) and given a strong additional push in John Loftus’s sensationalist The War Against the Jews (1994).

Progenitor of two U.S. presidents, Prescott Bush Allegations involving the “father” of what has become the Bush dynasty relate to his association with Brown Harriman and Company, the Wall Street investment banking firm, which evolved from a 1931 merger of W. A. Harriman and Company and Brown Brothers, which was brought together by George Herbert Walker, president of the former, and his son-in-law, Prescott.

The younger Bush, by then, was one of the seven directors of Brown Brothers Harriman, a board that included W. Averell Harriman and his brother Roland.

Buchanan’s charges of a Bush-Nazi past are hard to ignore, largely because of his passion as a true-believer and an effective series of articles in a highly independent New England publication. His enthusiasm for getting “at the truth” of all this has been further emboldened by Loftus, who has suggested that Prescott Bush “should have been tried for treason, because they continued to support Hitler after the U.S. entered the war. Loftus, who describes himself as “a former prosecutor with the U.S. Justice Department’s Nazi-hunting unit,” has added the reassurance that he “could have made the case.”

Treasury and Justice department files, including what was then the Office of Alien Property, declassified as recently as September, do indeed show that the U. S. government acted to seize numerous assets held by Harriman affiliated companies. “After the war,” Buchanan has written, “a total of 18 additional Brown Brothers Harriman and UBC-related [Union Banking Corporation] client assets were seized” under the Trading With the Enemy Act, which Franklin D. Roosevelt signed right after Pearl Harbor.

George Herbert (Bert) Walker’s relationship with Averell Harriman went back to 1919, reported Buchanan, when both went to Paris to set up “the German branch of their banking and investment operations, which were largely based on critical war resources such as steel and coal.” Other corporate entities, all with ties to similar German interests, were then created by UBC, which had Prescott Bush on its board – most notably, the Hamburg-American Line, the Holland-American Trading Corporation, and the Seamless Steel Corporation. On October 12, 1920, the St. Louis Globe-Democrat headlined “Ex-St. Louisan Forms Giant Ship Merger,” explaining that Bert Walker was the “moving power” behind the “merger of two big financial houses in New York, which will place practically unlimited capital at the disposal of the new American-German shipping combine.” In the summer and fall of 1942, Congress, under the authority of the Trading With the Enemy Act, seized the first group of entities, the UBC, the Holland-American Trading Corporation, and the Hamburg-American Line. Buchanan’s diligence has discovered that the latter “reportedly smuggled Nazi spies into the U.S. before the war and encouraged U.S. ‘Patriots’ to travel to Germany and proselytize for Hitler in the early 1930s.”

Much of this is confirmed by the new documentation. The UBC was not a “bank” at all but “in reality a clearing house” for many assets and enterprises held by Fritz Thyssen, a German steel magnate who has written about his role in helping to finance the Third Reich. Located close to Bush’s 59 Wall Street office, it was “founded in 1924 by W. Averell Harriman on behalf of Thyssen and his Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart N. V. of Holland.” The UBC was seized by the United States under Vesting Order 248 on October 20, 1942, and, according to Buchanan, Bush and Harriman later received $1.5 million in compensation. Similar vesting orders leading to the divestiture of “enemy national” assets continued until well after the war. (A total of ten such vesting orders that indicate the firm’s investments are in the files in my possession.) Other holdings, associated with Bush, are more problematical, such as the relationship with the Silesian Holding Corporation and Consolidated Silesian Steel, which was bought from Thyssen in 1931.

In 1943, after press reports that the Polish mining interest was employing forced labor by using prisoners from the Auschwitz concentration camp, we are informed that “Prescott Bush distanced himself from UBC and had even engaged in the collection of funds for the victims of the war in his role as president of the National War Fund.” He had, in fact, taken over as head of the United Service Organizations soon after Pearl Harbor, raising “millions for the National War Fund,” according to Mickey Herskowitz, Prescott’s recent biographer.

The declassified papers confirm questionable transactions in violation of the Trading With the Enemies Act, but, as with all examinations of corporate malfeasance, more is needed to establish individual responsibility. Buchanan himself, when pressed for more details about Auschwitz, was uncharacteristically hesitant. Consolidated Silesian was the only direct link to the notorious death camp. A file in the Library of Congress confirms the business part of the relationship, but does not give any financial details. “More secretive,” says Buchanan, “is where the cloaking arrangement with Sullivan and Cromwell [most often associated with its best-known partner, John Foster Dulles] and Schroeder Rock, which is the Schroeder Bank and the Rockefeller family trust and investment arrangement – that links to the Rockefeller dealings (which John Loftus has written about) to the New York banks, some of which had to do with I. G. Farben through City National Bank of New York in back of those transactions.” Buchanan contends that there are also records involving the City National Bank, which he cites as “definitely the hot-blood area for all the Nazi money, especially I. G. Farben and Hermann Schmidt, the infamous managing director of I. G. Farben,” which was represented in court by Dulles’s Sullivan and Cromwell.

Their relationship with German enterprises, moreover, began during the years of Germany’s Weimar Republic, well before Hitler's rise. An international investment banking firm, they also did business with the Soviets during the 1920s (which was not in violation of any statute), and, all in all, with forty-five different countries. Their correspondent relationships spanned the world and numbered some five thousand, according to Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas's The Wise Men, transactions that hardly were confined to Nazis or the Soviet Union.

Still, “following the money trail” is a tricky matter. Loftus points out that the Weimar government, pressed to pay their reparations bill, had to borrow gold from Sullivan and Cromwell’s American clients, and that some 70 percent of the gold that “flowed into Germany during the 1930's” came from U. S. Investors, and heavily from clients of the Dulles firm. An internal government memo on August 18, 1941, also noted that the UBC had made ”extensive” purchases of gold amounting to over eight million dollars, most of which was then shipped to Europe, presumably Germany. That transaction, speculated J. W. Pehle, an assistant to the secretary of the treasury, may have been the basis for rumors that Fritz Thyssen “has large gold deposits hoarded in the United States.” His own examination of the UBC books and ledgers, however, showed that “all of the purchases have been satisfactorily accounted for.”

In view of all the financial transactions involving Germany during this period, the role of that major Jewish banking family, the Warburgs (which also did business with the Harriman group), demonstrates some of the realities of the flow of capital. The Warburgs, backed by such American groups as B’nai B’rith and the American Jewish Committee, demanded in 1934, according to Tarpley and Chaitkin, that “American Jews not ‘agitate’ against the Hitler government” or participate in any pro-Nazi boycott. Such denial about Nazi objectives was not unusual at the time. Aryan laws, at that point in German history, were still less tangible than the marketplace.

Understandably, the American media has indeed been skittish about the Bush-Nazi story. The association of the Tarpley-Chaitkin book with the organization headed by the Lyndon LaRouche organization (published by the Executive Intelligence Review of Washington, a LaRouchian press) has not been helpful, to say the least. Nor has the sensationalist tone and dubious message of Loftus’s The War Against the Jews. One prominent critic of the administration in Washington, journalist Joe Conason, while acknowledging that the “involvement of Prescott Sr. and other members of the American business aristocracy with Nazi-era industry was shameful,” protests that “neither his offenses, nor the Republican Party’s politics of personal destruction, can justify using such [smear] tactics. Imputing Nazi sympathies to the President or his family ought to beneath his adversaries.” After a story on the allegations appeared in the Polish edition of Newsweek, it was “spiked” by the news magazine’s American version. Major U.S. outlets, Buchanan contends, have also bypassed a chance to investigate the story “when information regarding discovery of the documents was presented to them.” Although carried by the Associated Press, few members picked it up. One that did, Newsday on New York’s Long Island, ran it under the headline “Bush Ancestor’s Bank Seized by Gov’t.”

A notable exception to the skepticism about Buchanan has been the New Hampshire Gazette. Published as a fortnightly in Portsmouth with a circulation of some seven thousand and owned and edited by journalist Steven Fowle, a descendant of the Daniel Fowle who first brought it out in 1756 (making it, “the nation’s oldest newspaper”), it has, to date, run two Buchanan stories plus his interview with John Loftus. Fowle, called by a writer for the St. Petersburg Times, an example of “Yankee Spunk,” explained that he thought it vital to gauge to what extent the Bush family fortune was derived from the Nazis. “If it’s true, it ought to be said,” he emphasized, “and it’s not my fault that it’s ugly.”

Asked to account for the skittishness of most of the media, he responded by doubting that the president’s staff would care much about revelations in his paper and added that most of the other media outlets “don’t have the courage to stick their necks out if it involves challenging power. The only trouble with that is that challenging power is their job.”

Conason, of course, is right. But, at least to some extent, it did happen, even if the details are far from clear. As with all such examples of infatuation with power, or the control of power, or the interests of sheer survival, the story should be told. As John F. Kennedy once said, “let the chips fall where they may.”

The most judicious and succinct appraisal of all this was offered by Christopher Simpson ten years ago in n a book called The Splendid Blond Beast: Money, Law and Genocide in the Twentieth Century:

By 1944 and 1945, leaders of major German companies such as automaker Daimler Benz, electrical manufacturers AEG and Siemans, and most of Germany’s large mining, steelmaking, chemical, and construction companies found themselves deeply compromised by their exploitation of concentration camp labor, theft, and in some cases complicity in mass murder. They committed those crimes not so much out of ideological conviction, but more often as a means of preserving their influence within Germany’s economy and society. For much of the German economic elite, their cooperation in atrocities was offered to Hitler’s government in exchange for its aid in maintaining their status.

All this, especially considering the number of American businesses that were engaged in the German market, says more about finance and capitalism than about ideology. It is a story of power, totalitarianism on one hand, and sheer greed and economic survival on the other – and with no relationship to “morality.” We need to do more than merely sift through the essence of Buchanan's assertions, as troubling as they may be, to appreciate the value of his labors, and wonder at the contribution to public knowledge of Steven Fowle’s maverick newspaper.

What all this means for the reputation of Prescott Bush's descendants should be as relevant as Joseph P. Kennedy’s for his descendants, just as it was for the connection of the Dulleses with Sullivan and Cromwell. Similar associations did not keep John Foster Dulles from becoming secretary of state or his brother Allen from heading the C.I.A. Nor did it stop Averell Harriman from becoming governor of New York.


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Mel Carnahan - 1/27/2007

The most important aspect of the story is not even mentioned - the infiltration of America's intelligence community. They didn't send Gehlen and Dulles to Nurnberg after WWII. This is important to understanding the unearned ascent of Prescott, George, George Junior, Jeb, and Neil Bush. It also explains the background behind many wars and death squads over the last 70 years. It also explains many plane crashes, heart attacks, strokes, and cancer cases in the United States. And much more. Dulles contravened Truman's explicit orders not to bring in Nazis and war criminals to the US and whitewashed the resumes of many hundreds or thousands of the worst Nazi scientists, SS, and German Intelligence officials implicated in war crimes. Instead of a war crimes tribunal Reinhard Gehlen was given more access to and control over the American intelligence community than most American politicians. This was Hitler's most senior military intelligence officer. The offshoots of Nazi mind control experiments like Project Paperclip remain under Bush's complete control under such euphimisms as "The Terrorist Surveillance Program". There is no question that the Bush family needs to donate at least $1.5 million to the proper holocaust reparation fund. Since Prescott Bush is dead, the only way to compensate is for the main inheritors of his estate to make amends with surviving slaves and the families of slaves who died in Bush and Thyssen's coal mines. If the Bush family refuses to contribute the money to compensate for Prescott Bush's involvement in the Holocaust, it is like denying the Holocaust itself and their role in one of the darkest moments in world history. " But the ability of the Bush family to manipulate the corporate sector through their intelligence control affects the entire economy to this very day.


Cliff Hoeft - 8/12/2006

I have tried to trace J.D.Rockefeller's abettors, I stop at the connections of the Davison family. I also have looked for an enabler of E.H. Harriman.I find them both portrayed as 'self made men'. I don't believe it for a second. When E.H. Harriman was ready to step down he formed a partnership with George Herbert Walker.Financing railroads... Prescott Bush married his daughter, and he gave Prescott his start, while E.H. set up his son W. Averell Harriman. Walker & Harriman were equal partners, Walker had strong ties to Yale, Skull & Bones, Banking, and Germany..... I see the Harrimans in that era as buying their way into the halls of power, the Bush's were novices with an inside track and expendable as front fodder.... The trouble I have had trying to find info on Walker family history convinces me it has been purged. I think competent research will show connections between the original George Herbert Walker and the British East India Co.. The Opium connection, The South Sea Bubble, And Brown Bros., Harriman bailing out Barings Bank. When I see WWII documents from government files proving Bush complicity in aiding the enemy, the Harrimans walk with out censure, I have to wonder who was speaking for George Herbert Walker's original stake in the partnership. Who held that POWER in 1942 ? Who holds it today?
The recent Dubia Ports deal involved P & O lines, originally founded to transport opium into China for interests of the British East India Co.
AS THE WIZARD SAID " Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

cliff 567
8-11-06


Cliff Hoeft - 8/12/2006

I have tried to trace J.D.Rockefeller's abettors, I stop at the connections of the Davison family. I also have looked for an enabler of E.H. Harriman.I find them both portrayed as 'self made men'. I don't believe it for a second. When E.H. Harriman was ready to step down he formed a partnership with George Herbert Walker.Financing railroads... Prescott Bush married his daughter, and he gave Prescott his start, while E.H. set up his son W. Averell Harriman. Walker & Harriman were equal partners, Walker had strong ties to Yale, Skull & Bones, Banking, and Germany..... I see the Harrimans in that era as buying their way into the halls of power, the Bush's were novices with an inside track and expendable as front fodder.... The trouble I have had trying to find info on Walker family history convinces me it has been purged. I think competent research will show connections between the original George Herbert Walker and the British East India Co.. The Opium connection, The South Sea Bubble, And Brown Bros., Harriman bailing out Barings Bank. When I see WWII documents from government files proving Bush complicity in aiding the enemy, the Harrimans walk with out censure, I have to wonder who was speaking for George Herbert Walker's original stake in the partnership. Who held that POWER in 1942 ? Who holds it today?
The recent Dubia Ports deal involved P & O lines, originally founded to transport opium into China for interests of the British East India Co.
AS THE WIZARD SAID " Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

cliff 567
8-11-06


troutfishing - 1/3/2004

Mr. Parmet article is on the whole judicious - except by way of omission. But his omissions are not minor. I wonder how deeply he has actually dug into this story? - He neglects to mention the wider dimensions and so undercuts his authority on this specific subject.

First Prescott Bush and Allen Dulles may have been a bit more enthusiatic than Parmet suggests - they sold bonds for the Thyssen group for about a decade before the onset of WW2 - and Fritz Thyssen was one of the key early funders of the Nazi Party. So the connection, it seems - on the surface at least - may have been a bit more than casual.

Further, Parmet does not mention the fact that Prescott Bush and GW Bush's grandfather on the Walker side of the family both recieved payments of $750,000 each from their sale of stock in the Union Banking Corporation, in 1952 - a small fortune at the time, and the larger part, I believe, of the developing Bush family fortune.

The Bush family association with Nazis continued through to George Bush Senior who - in an election scandal during his 1988 presidential run - was forced to fire some half dozen campaign advisors who were actually revealed to be ex-Nazi war criminals and Nazi sympathizers. ( detailed here - http://www.rememberjohn.com/Nazis.html )

The scale of "Trading with the Enemy" during WW2 was quite massive. The Union Bank's money laundering for the Thyssen group was one of a wide range of such mercenary behavior carried out by large American corporations - Ford, GM, IBM, Standard Oil......

In many cases, profits from the Germany subsidiaries of such corporations were laundered through labyrinthine channels, back eventually to the corporate parent. In some cases, ownership of the subsidiary was nominally passed on to german control but returned after the war's conclusion. Allied war reparations were paid to GM for the bombing of it's Germany factories which made vehicles for the Wermacht and - indeed - GM and Ford factories produced a considerable percentage of the vehicles used in the German war effort.

But - getting back to Prescott Bush and Allen Dulles : Dulles contravened Truman's explicit orders - to not bring in Nazis and war criminals to the US - and whitewashed the resumes of many hundreds - if not thousands - of Nazi scientists, SS, and German Intelligence officials impliciated in war crimes. "The most important Nazi employed by the U.S. was Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's most senior eastern front military intelligence officer. After Germany's defeat became certain, Gehlen offered the U. S. certain concessions in exchange for his own protection. Gehlen promoted hyped up cold war propaganda on behalf of the political right in this country, and helped shape U.S. perceptions of the cold war." (from the above linked source). But perhaps just as significantly, Dulles brought in such persons under the then top-secret "Operation [or Project] Paperclip" which some historians have cast as the prototypical "black budget", hermetically sealed governernment secret program which inspired a whole number of pet, hidden projects which escape Congressional or even Presidential scrutiny and so are corrosive to American Democracy itself.

Of Prescott Bush, I quote the beginning of Randy Davis' "Nazis in the Attic", available at http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/randy/swas1a.htm : "  "A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime. . . .

"Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there."

-- William E. Dodd, U.S. Ambassador to Germany, 1937. (1)

A large volume of documentary evidence exists that reveals that many of the richest, most powerful men in the United States, and the giant corporations they controlled, were secretly allied with the Nazis, both before and during World War II, even after war was declared between Germany and America. This alliance began with U.S. corporate investment during the reconstruction of post-World War I Germany in the 1920s and, years later, included financial, industrial and military aid to the Nazis"

Meanwhile, this rather large block of text, from a superb "Clamour Magazine" article which seems to be no longer available on the web, goes quite deeply into the question of the Bush/THyssen/Aushwitz link.

"...Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation was located near the Polish town of Oswiecim, one of Poland's richest mineral regions. That was where Hitler set up the Auschwitz concentration camp. When the plan to work Soviet prisoners fell through, the Nazis transferred Jews, communists, gypsies and other minority populations to the camp. The prisoners of Auschwitz who were able to work were shipped to 30 different companies. One of the companies was the vast Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation.

"Nobody's made the connection before between Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation, Auschwitz and Prescott Bush," John Loftus told Clamor.

"That was the reason why Auschwitz was built there. The coal deposits could be processed into either coal or additives for aviation gasoline."

Even though Thyssen and Flick's Consolidated Steel was in their possession, Hitler's invasions across Europe spooked them, bringing back memories of World War I. Thyssen and Flick sold Consolidated Steel to UBC. Under the complete control of Harriman and management of Bush, the company became Silesian American Corporation which became part of UBC and Harriman's portfolio of 15 corporations. Thyssen quickly moved to Switzerland and later France to hide from the terror about to be unleashed by the Nazi war machine he had helped build.

A portion of the slave labor force in Poland was "managed by Prescott Bush," according to a Dutch intelligence agent. In 1941, slave labor had become the lifeblood of the Nazi war machine. The resources of Poland's rich steel and coal field played an essential part in Hitler's invasion of Europe.

According to Higham, Hitler and the Fraternity of American businessmen "not only sought a continuing alliance of interests for the duration of World War II, but supported the idea of a negotiated peace with Germany that would bar any reorganization of Europe along liberal lines. It would leave as its residue a police state that would place the Fraternity in postwar possession of financial, industrial, and political autonomy."

Six days after Pearl Harbor and the US declaration of war at the end of 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau and US Attorney General Francis Biddle signed the Trading With the Enemy Act, which banned any business interests with US enemies of war. Prescott Bush continued with business as usual, aiding the Nazi invasion of Europe and supplying resources for weaponry that would eventually be turned on American solders in combat against Germany.

On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government had had enough of Prescott Bush and his Nazi business arrangements with Thyssen. Over the summer, The New York Tribune had exposed Bush and Thyssen, whom the Tribune dubbed "Hitler's Angel." When the US government saw UBC's books, they found out that Bush's bank and its shareholders "are held for the benefit of ... members of the Thyssen family, [and] is property of nationals ... of a designated enemy country." The list of seven UBC share holders was:

E. Roland Harriman – 3991 shares
Cornelis Lievense – 4 shares
Harold D.Pennington – 1 share
Ray Morris–– 1 share
Prescott S. Bush – 1 share
H.J. Kouwenhoven – 1 share
Johann G. Groeninger – 1 share.

The UBC books also revealed the myriad of money and holding companies funneled from the Thyssens and the government realized UBC was just the tip of the iceberg. On November 17, 1942, The US government also took over the Silesian American Corporation, but did not prosecute Bush for the reasons Higham noted earlier. The companies were allowed to operate within the Government Alien Property custodian office with a catch – no aiding the Nazis. In 1943, while still owning his stock, Prescott Bush resigned from UBC and even helped raise money for dozens of war-related causes as chairman of the National War Fund.

After the war, the Dutch government began investigating the whereabouts of some jewelry of the Dutch royal family that was stolen by the Nazis. They started looking into books of the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart. When they discovered the transaction papers of the Silesian American Corporation, they began asking the bank manager H.J. Kounhoven a lot of questions. Kouwenhoven was shocked at the discovery and soon traveled to New York to inform Prescott Bush. According to Dutch intelligence, Kouwenhoven met with Prescott soon after Christmas, 1947. Two weeks later, Kouwenhoven apparently died of a heart attack.

1950s: Bush Sells UBC Stock

By 1948, Fritz Thyssen's life was in ruins. After being jailed by the Nazis, he was jailed by the Allies and interrogated extensively, but not completely, by US investigators. Thyssen and Flick were ordered to pay reparations and served time in prison for their atrocious crimes against humanity.

On February 8, 1951, Fritz Thyssen died bitterly in Argentina at the age of 78. Thyssen was angry at the way he was treated by Europe after the war and how history would remember him as Hitler's most important and prominent financier.

When Thyssen died, the Alien Property Custodian released the assets of the Union Banking Corporation to Brown Brothers Harriman. The remaining stockholders cashed in their stocks and quietly liquidated the rest of UBC's blood money.

Prescott Bush received $1.5 million for his share in UBC. That money enabled Bush to help his son, George Herbert Walker Bush, to set up his first royalty firm, Overby Development Company, that same year. It was also helpful when Prescott Bush left the business world to enter the public arena in 1952 with a successful senatorial campaign in Connecticut. On October 8th, 1972, Prescott Bush died of cancer and his will was enacted soon after.

In 1980, when George H.W. Bush was elected vice president, he placed his father's family inherence in a blind trust. The trust was managed by his old friend and quail hunting partner, William "Stamps" Farish III. Bush's choice of Farish to manage the family wealth is quite revealing in that it demonstrates that the former president might know exactly where some of his inheritance originated. Farish's grandfather, William Farish Jr., on March 25th, 1942, pleaded "no contest" to conspiring with Nazi Germany while president of Standard Oil in New Jersey. He was described by Senator Harry Truman in public of approaching "treason" for profiting off the Nazi war machine. Standard Oil, invested millions in IG Farben, who opened a gasoline factory within Auschwitz in 1940. The billions "Stamps" inherited had more blood on it then Bush, so the paper trail of UBC stock would be safe during his 12 years in presidential politics.

It has been 60 years since one of the great money laundering scandals of the 20th century ended and only now are we beginning to see the true historical aspects of this important period of world history, a history that the remaining Holocaust survivors beg humanity to "never forget."
Loftus believes history will view Prescott Bush as harshly as Thyssen. "It is bad enough that the Bush family helped raise the money for Thyssen to give Hitler his start in the 1920s, but giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war is treason. The Bush bank helped the Thyssens make the Nazi steel that killed Allied solders. As bad as financing the Nazi war machine may seem, aiding and abetting the Holocaust was worse. Thyssen's coal mines used Jewish slaves as if they were disposable chemicals. There are six million skeletons in the Thyssen family closet, and a myriad of criminal and historical questions to be answered about the Bush family's complicity."

There is no question that the Bush family needs to donate at least $1.5 million to the proper holocaust reparation fund. Since Prescott Bush is dead, the only way to compensate is for the main inheritors of his estate to make amends with surviving slaves and the families of slaves who died in Bush and Thyssen's coal mines. If the Bush family refuses to contribute the money to compensate for Prescott Bush's involvement in the Holocaust, it is like denying the Holocaust itself and their role in one of the darkest moments in world history. "




An Historical Timeline of Population Control - 12/16/2003

An Historical Timeline of Population Control

by Robert Howard

The following excerpt was taken from an outline of a Government Project: The Wildlands Project.
"....Humanity must drastically scale down its industrial activities on Earth, change its consumption lifestyles, stabilize and then reduce the size of the human population by humane means, and protect and restore wild ecosystems and the remaining wildlife on the planet."

The Wildlands Project

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto
the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto Me."
(Matthew 25:40)

The Tartars had the idea of infecting the enemy by catapulting bodies infected with bubonic plague over the walls of the city of Kaffa. Some historians believe that this event was the cause of the epidemic of plague that swept across medieval Europe killing 25 million.

1763 The British during the French-Indian War. The Native Americans greatly outnumbered the British and were suspected of being on the side of the French. As an "act of good will" the British give blankets to the Indians, but the blankets came from a hospital that was treating smallpox victims and consequently smallpox raged through the Native American community and devastated their numbers.

1814 Andrew Jackson, whose portrait appears on the U.S. $20 bill today, supervised the mutilation of 800 or more Creek Indian corpses, the bodies of men, women and children that his troops had massacred, cutting off their noses to count and preserve a record of the dead, slicing long strips of flesh from their bodies to tan and turn into bridle reins. (Historian Ward Churchill, A LITTLE MATTER OF GENOCIDE; HOLOCAUST AND DENIAL IN THE AMERICAS, 1492 TO THE PRESENT (San Francisco: City Lights Books, 1997). ISBN 0-87286-323-9. pg.186) U.S. Presidents And The Masonic Power Structure

1911 Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1918 The modern history of Biological Warfare (BW) starts in 1918 with the Japanese formation of a special section of the Army (Unit 731) dedicated to BW. The thought at the time was "Science and Technology are the Key's to Winning War and BW is the most cost effective."

1918-1919 Flu pandemic that killed over 20 million worldwide and over 500,000 here in the US.

1920's Unlike the malignant twists of nature, ranging from bubonic plague through to potato blight, which have killed masses throughout the ages, both the beef and pituitary hormone CJD crises were manmade. Scrapie, the sheep equivalent of BSE and CJD, has been around for more than two centuries. Somewhat differently, human spongiform encephalopathy was unheard of before two German physicians, Creutzfeldt and Jakob, independently reported the initial cases in the 1920s. BSE, too, was unheard of until a decade after cattle (aka Mad Cow) began to be fed the protein-rich remains of scrapie-infected sheep to accelerate their growth.

1929 The Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1930's Less known to the public is that fluoride also accumulates in bones. "The teeth are windows to what's happening in the bones," explained Paul Connett, Professor of Chemistry at St Lawrence University, New York, to these reporters. In recent years, pediatric bone specialists have expressed alarm about an increase in stress fractures among young people in the US. Connett and other scientists are concerned that fluoride-linked to bone damage in studies since the 1930s-may be a contributing factor. http://www.nexusmagazine.com/

1931 Japan expanded its territory by taking over part of Manchuria and Unit 731 moved in to secure "an endless supply of human experiment materials." Essentially all prisoners of war were available for Biological Warfare (BW) experiments. Japanese WWII Veteran Admits Unit 731 Germ Tests

1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients. http://www.sightings.com/general4/usb.htm

1932 The Infamous Tuskegee Study
In recent history, we have seen the influence of occult population control advocates here in America. Nowhere is that influence better demonstrated than in the Tuskegee Study, a scientific research program in which 400 syphilis-infected black men were recruited by the U.S. Public Health Service back in 1932. The participants were all told that they would be treated for their infections, but instead of treating their illness, all medicines were withheld. The black men were then actively prevented from obtaining treatment elsewhere as their bodies, and the bodies of their wives and children, were systematically ravaged by disease. The evil men who conceived that Nazi-style study justified their atrocity by alleging that scientists needed to learn how untreated syphilis progressed in the human body. For a period of forty years, between 1932 and 1972, the genocidal Tuskegee Study continued. It was not until 1972, when one newspaper finally had the courage to break the story to the public, that the Tuskegee Study was finally terminated. The Population Control Agenda

1934 The original lesson about the infectious nature of these brain diseases mad cow disease" or bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle, and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) in humans) came from a 1934 vaccine catastrophe in the UK which brought scrapie, or "mad sheep disease", to almost 5,000 out of 18,000 lambs within two years of their immunization against louping-ill virus infection. Tracing back, scientists discovered that the vaccine serum was prepared from a number of lambs whose dams had subsequently developed scrapie, but the significance of scrapie passing vertically from ewes to their lambs, and horizontally from lamb to lamb by virtue of the vaccine injections, was kept from international eyes by a series of egotistical carry-ons which prevented the data from reaching the pages of the scientific literature for a further 15 years.

1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occurred within poverty-stricken black populations. http://www.sightings.com/general4/usb.htm

1935 China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1938 Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 6 to 7 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and 12 million Christians who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1939 Margaret Sanger organized her "Negro project," a program designed to eliminate members of what she believed to be an "inferior race." Margaret Sanger justified her proposal because she believed that: "The masses of Negroes .particularly in the South, still breed carelessly and disastrously, with the result that the increase among Negroes, even more than among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit..." The Population Control Agenda

1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust. http://www.sightings.com/general4/usb.htm

1941 Japanese planes sprayed bubonic plague over parts of China. At least 5 separate instances of this occurring have been documented. In 1942 "bacterial bombs" were deployed on mainland China but these attacks were determined to be ineffective.

1942 The United States (US) becomes aware of the Japanese efforts in Biological Warfare (BW) and decided to start its own program. These acts were not the only atrocities committed, however. The Japanese released thousands of plague infested rats prior to their surrender, with unknown consequences. They also tested on American POW's during the war and the U.S. Government apparently knew about it, but did nothing (perhaps a worse atrocity). These people killed over 3000 POWs, including many Americans, in a variety of grisly experiments. What they did instead was to offer immunity to would-be war criminals in exchange for the information the Japanese learned from these experiments!

1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty. http://www.sightings.com/general4/usb.htm

1942 Great Britain was also developing a program in Biological Warfare (BW). The program focused on anthrax spores and their viability and "range of spread" when delivered with a conventional bomb. The fateful Gruinard Island off the coast of Scotland was chosen as the site for this testing. It was thought that it was far enough off the coast as too prevent any contamination of the mainland, which later turned out to be false. The data gathered from these experiments was used by both Great Britain and the U.S. to develop bombs that were better able to effectively disperse spores.

1943 After an outbreak of anthrax in sheep and cattle in 1943 on the coast of Scotland that directly faced Gruinard, the British decided to stop testing. A tragic consequence of this testing is that even today Gruinard Island is contaminated with Bacillus anthracis spores. The original idea for decontamination was to start a brushfire that burned off the top of the soil and killed all traces of the organisms. Unfortunately, the spores unexpectedly embedded themselves in the soil so total decontamination of the island was/is impossible. As long as no ground is disturbed, we are supposedly safe, but birds that travel back and forth from mainland to island probably don't know this!

1943 Planning began in 1943 with the appointment of a special New York State Health Department committee to study the advisability of adding fluoride to Newburgh's drinking water. The chairman of the committee was, again, Dr Harold C. Hodge, then chief of fluoride toxicity studies for the Manhattan Project. Subsequent members of the committee included Henry L. Barnett, a captain in the Project's Medical Section, and John W. Fertig, in 1944 with the Office of Scientific Research and Development-the super-secret Pentagon group which sired the Manhattan Project. Their military affiliations were kept secret. Hodge was described as a pharmacologist, Barnett as a pediatrician. Placed in charge of the Newburgh project was David B. Ast, chief dental officer of the New York State Health Department. Ast had participated in a key secret wartime conference on fluoride, held by the Manhattan Project in January 1944, and later worked with Dr Hodge on the Project's investigation of human injury in the New Jersey incident, according to once-secret memos.

1944 A Manhattan Project memorandum of 29 April 1944 states: "Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather marked central nervous system effect... It seems most likely that the F [code for fluoride] component rather than the T [code for uranium] is the causative factor." The memo, from a captain in the medical corps, is stamped SECRET and is addressed to Colonel Stafford Warren, head of the Manhattan Project's Medical Section. Colonel Warren is asked to approve a program of animal research on CNS effects. "Since work with these compounds is essential, it will be necessary to know in advance what mental effects may occur after exposure... This is important not only to protect a given individual, but also to prevent a confused workman from injuring others by improperly performing his duties. The author of the 1944 CNS research proposal attached to the 29 April memo was Dr Harold C. Hodge-at the time, chief of fluoride toxicology studies for the University of Rochester division of the Manhattan Project.

1944 When a severe pollution incident occurred downwind of the E.I. DuPont de Nemours Company chemical factory in Deepwater, New Jersey. The factory was then producing millions of pounds of fluoride for the Manhattan Project whose scientists were racing to produce the world's first atomic bomb. The farms downwind in Gloucester and Salem counties were famous for their high-quality produce. Their peaches went directly to the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York City; their tomatoes were bought up by Campbell's Soup. But in the summer of 1944 the farmers began reporting that their crops were blighted: "Something is burning up the peach crops around here." They said that poultry died after an all-night thunderstorm, and that farm workers who ate produce they'd picked would sometimes vomit all night and into the next day. "I remember our horses looked sick and were too stiff to work," Mildred Giordano, a teenager at the time, told these reporters. Some cows were so crippled that they could not stand up; they could only graze by crawling on their bellies. The account was confirmed in taped interviews with Philip Sadtler (shortly before he died), of Sadtler Laboratories of Philadelphia, one of the nation's oldest chemical consulting firms. Sadtler had personally conducted the initial investigation of the damage. The farmers were stonewalled in their search for information about fluoride's effects on their health, and their complaints have long since been forgotten. But they unknowingly left their imprint on history: their complaints of injury to their health reverberated through the corridors of power in Washington and triggered intensive, secret, bomb program research on the health effects of fluoride. http://www.nexusmagazine.com/

1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite. http://www.sightings.com/general4/usb.htm

1945 May. Newburgh's water was fluoridated, and over the next 10 years its residents were studied by the New York State Health Department.

1945-1955 Much of the original proof that fluoride is safe for humans in low doses was generated by A-bomb program scientists who had been secretly ordered to provide "evidence useful in litigation" against defense contractors for fluoride injury to citizens. The first lawsuits against the American A-bomb program were not over radiation, but over fluoridedamage, the documents show. Human studies were required. Bomb program researchers played a leading role in the design and implementation of the most extensive US study of the health effects of fluoridating public drinking water, conducted in Newburgh, New York, from 1945 to 1955. Then, in a classified operation code-named "Program F", they secretly gathered and analyzed blood and tissue samples from Newburgh citizens with the cooperation of New York State Health Department personnel. The original, secret version (obtained by these reporters) of a study published by Program F scientists in the August 1948 Journal of the American Dental Association1 shows that evidence of adverse health effects from fluoride was censored by the US Atomic Energy Commission (AEC)-considered the most powerful of Cold War agencies-for reasons of "national security". The bomb program's fluoride safety studies were conducted at the University of Rochester-site of one of the most notorious human radiation experiments of the Cold War, in which unsuspecting hospital patients were injected with toxic doses of radioactive plutonium. The fluoride studies were conducted with the same ethical mindset, in which "national security" was paramount. http://www.nexusmagazine.com/

Hitler claimed to have gotten his inspiration for the "final solution" from the extermination of Native Americans in the U.S.

1947 By then, as the 1950s dawned, mad sheep disease was shown in the United States to jump the species barrier when a scrapie-infected food supplement brought a similar brain illness to farm-raised mink in 1947. By this stage, the medico-scientific fraternity was intensely preoccupied with another incurable brain illness, kuru, which had reached epidemic proportions amongst the Fore people living in the highlands of New Guinea. Anthropologists from the University of Adelaide unraveled a chain of events to trace the origin of kuru back to the reverent consumption of deceased tribal members' bodies. Kuru was essentially eradicated by New Guinean authorities acting in 1959 on the anthropological clue to outlaw the eating of human flesh.

1947 The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.

1949 U.S. Army begins 20 years of simulated germ warfare attacks against American cities, conducting at least 239 open air tests. see Chemtrail's

1950 Sept. 20-26. One of the biggest experiments involved the use of Serratia marcescens and bacillus globigi being sprayed over 117 square miles of the San Francisco area, causing pneumonia-like infections in many of the residents. The family of one elderly man who died in the test sued the government, but lost. To this day, syraceus is a leading cause of death among the elderly in the San Francisco area.

1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates

1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.

1953 CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.

1955 Another case was the joint Army-CIA BW test in 1955, still classified, in which an undisclosed bacteria was released in the Tampa Bay region of Florida, causing a dramatic increase in whooping cough infections, including twelve deaths.

1956 The Soviet Union accused the U.S. of using biological weapons in Korea, which lead them to threaten future use of Chemical and Biological weapons. This changed the focus of the U.S. program to a more defensive one. Before this, the bulk of the research was based at Ft. Detrick and used "surrogate biological agents" to model more deadly organisms. Most of the offensive tests were based on "secret spraying" of organisms over populated areas. This program was (supposedly) shut down in 1969.

1956 Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Other experiments included tests on Minneapolis that were disguised as "smoke screen tests" because residents were told a harmless smoke was being tested so that cities might be 'hidden' from radar guided missiles.

1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.

1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

1963 The mass vaccination campaigns of the 1950s and '60s may be causing hundreds of deaths a year because of a cancer-causing virus that contaminated the first polio vaccine, according to scientists. Known as SV40, the virus came from dead monkeys whose kidney cells were used to culture the first Salk vaccines. Doctors estimate that the virus was injected into tens of millions during the vaccination campaigns, including several million in Canada, before being detected and screened out in 1963. Those born between 1941 and 1961 are thought to be most at risk of having been infected.

1964 Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1965 Aspartame is the technical name for the brand names, NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, and Equal-Measure. Aspartame was discovered by accident in 1965, when James Schlatter, a chemist of G.D. Searle Company was testing an anti-ulcer drug. Aspartame was approved for dry goods in 1981 and for carbonated beverages in 1983.

1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.

1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.

1966 July 7-10, The virus Bacillus subtilis was released throughout the New York subway system, conducted by the U.S. Army's Special Operations Division. Due to the vast number of people exposed it would virtually impossible to identify, let alone prove, and specific health problems resulting directly from this test.

1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.

1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

Often/ Chickwit -1967 Or 1968, Project OFTEN/CHICKWIT was initiated by the Army Chemical Corps and the CIA's Office of Research and Development to create new drug compounds "that could be used offensively." Hallucinogens were tested on inmates in Pennsylvania, but very little is known about the experiments. "CIA documents mention 'several laboratory accidents' in which a drug designated as EA-3167 produced 'prolonged psychotic effects in laboratory personnel' " U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop light bulbsfilled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates. It would appear that the CIA's drug testing continued throughout the 1970s since, "A CIA memo dated March 8, 1971, indicates that a backlog of more than twenty-six thousand drugs had been acquired 'for future screening'

1968 - 69 The Hong Kong flu, which was influenza A type H3N2, killed over 30,000 people in the U.S. alone. That was a fortuitous learning event for some because it taught them that the flu could still conceivably be used to wipe out a population. But at the same time, it pointed out the need to precondition the populace so that those who might normally be resistant could be rendered susceptible. Hence the development of the vaccine program and the aerial spraying procedures to condition the population. The purpose of the chemicals in the chemtrail's is to help the viral envelope fuse with lung cells, permitting easier penetration and infection.

1969 At a House Appropriations hearing, the Defense Department's Biological Warfare (BW) division requested funds to develop through gene-splicing a new disease that would both resist and break down a victim's immune system. "Within the next 5 to 10 years it would probably be possible to make a new infective micro-organism which could differ in certain important respects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious diseases." The funds were approved. AIDS appeared within the requested time frame, and has the exact characteristics specified.

1970 Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

1972 The World Health Organization (W.H.O.) published a similar proposal: "An attempt should be made to ascertain whether viruses can in fact exert selective effects on immune function, e.g., by .affecting T cell function as opposed to B cell function. The possibility should also be looked into that the immune response to the virus itself may be impaired if the infecting virus damages more or less selectively the cells responding to the viral antigens." (Bulletin of the W.H.O., vol. 47, p 257- 274.) This is a clinical description of the function of the AIDS virus.

1972 It was discovered that black children as young as age five were having psychosurgery performed on them at the University of Mississippi in Jackson in order to control "hyperactive" and "aggressive" behavior. Their brains were being implanted with electrodes that were heated up to melt areas of the brain that regulate emotion and intellect. When we first opposed these experiments, and eventually stopped them, we did so despite resistance from organized psychiatry and the research community.

Mid-1970's The incidence of AIDS infections in Africa coincides exactly with the locations of the W.H.O. smallpox vaccination program in the mid-1970's (London Times, May 11, 1987). Some 14,000 Haitians then on UN secondment to Central Africa were also vaccinated in this campaign. Personnel actually conducting the vaccinations may have been completely unaware that the vaccine was anything other than what they were told.

1975 Two neuroscientists, Laura and (the late) Eli Manuelides, from Yale University in the US, went on to illustrate by 1975 that injections of human blood, like injections of brain taken from kuru and CJD victims, transmitted the disease across the species barrier to laboratory animals. Their prophetic, but unheeded, message implied that blood was the vehicle that carried the agent of CJD around the body until it chanced upon an hospitable residence like the brain. This meant that the blood route was the key to the transmission of CJD from a primary host to a secondary host.

1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

On October 5, 1976, just as the so-called "SWINE FLU" inoculation program was getting under way, news reports suddenly told us that we were experiencing fallout from an alleged Chinese atmospheric nuclear blast on September 26. Oddly enough, the initial reports about this came from the East Coast, especially Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Connecticut; but certain areas of the Pacific Northwest were soon mentioned as being affected too. We were told that radioactive iodine-131 was showing up in milk at various locations; but we were also assured, as we invariably are whenever any radioactive hazard appears, that there was really no danger. In the days that followed we continued to hear about the supposed Chinese fallout, but other things probably seemed even more worrisome. For example, elderly people began dying of heart attacks shortly after taking swine flu shots, causing widespread alarm at first. But the Government quickly assured us that their deaths didn't really matter at all, that they would have died anyway; and the swine flu inoculation program went right back into high gear. Dr. Peter Beter

1976 the joint KGB-CIA chemical warfare experimentation program began in Philadelphia at the American Legion Convention. A convenient test group was assembled, and it was exploited. Data was desired for the effects of a formulation of the new family of poisons on older men in particular, and the American Legion Convention was chosen as the perfect target. Aerosol spray cans containing poisoned room freshener were used to selectively saturate the atmosphere of the Legionnaires. Afterwards the special spray cans were taken from the hotel, leaving the city by airplane from a small airport on the northwest side of Philadelphia. Two of the active ingredients in the poison that produced the Legionnaires Disease were plutonium and zirconium. Dr. Peter Beter

August 1976 about a month after the Legionnaire episode, and had quite a different purpose; and so a different poison formula was used. Plutonium was again an ingredient, as it is in the entire line of chemical warfare agents now being tested; but this time the formula was designed for very rapid effect with the victims receiving a massive dose. On a day late in August two Air Force C-141 Starlifter transport aircraft that were preparing to leave McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey on flights over the Atlantic were sabotaged by the placement in their cockpits of concealed canisters of poison gas, rigged so that the gas would be released in flights without being detected. The two planes left McGuire at nearly the same time, and crashed within hours of one another when approaching separate destinations in Greenland and England. The very next day, with the wreckage of the aircraft hardly cooled, a Pentagon spokesman said, quote: "Sabotage does not appear to be a factor. It's not even being considered as a factor." Officials also said there was no apparent connection between the crashes. Apparently leaving the same Air Base at practically the same time and then crashing almost simultaneously without warning is not supposed to suggest the possibility of anything but coincidence. No doubt it is also coincidence that McGuire Air Force Base, the origin of these two strange fatal flights, is right next door to Fort Dix where the whole swine flu cover-up scare originated! Dr. Peter Beter

1976 Nobel Prize went to American scientist Carleton Gajdusek for his experiments demonstrating that injections of kuru brain (1967) and CJD brain (1969) reproduced similar illnesses in chimpanzees.

A striking feature of AIDS is that it's ethno-selective. The rate of infection is twice as high among Blacks, Latinos and Native Americans as among whites, with death coming two to three times as swiftly. And over 80% of the children with AIDS and 90% of infants born with it are among these minorities. "Ethnic weapons" that would strike certain racial groups more heavily than others have been a long-standing U.S. Army BW objective. (Harris and Paxman, p 265)

The "discovery" of the AIDS virus (HTLV3) was announced by Dr. Robert Gallo at the National Cancer Institute, which is on the grounds of Fort Detrick, Maryland, a primary U.S. Army biological warfare research facility.

1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.

1978 The Hepatitis B vaccine study appears to have been the initial means of planting the infection in New York City. The test protocol specified non-monogamous males only, and homosexuals received a different vaccine from heterosexuals. At least 25-50% of the first reported New York AIDS cases in 1981 had received the Hepatitis B test vaccine in 1978. By 1984, 64% of the vaccine recipients had AIDS, and the figures on the current infection rate for the participants of that study are held by the U.S. Department of Justice, and "unavailable."

1978-1987 Even as the understanding of spongiform encephalopathy increased, various human pituitary hormone programs in countries such as Australia, France, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and United States were attracting hefty government sponsorships. Few of the programs' stalwarts caught on to the implications of the Manuelides' experiments, and unsuccessful attempts between the years of 1978 and 1987 to filter the CJD agent out of the pituitary hormones being injected into unsuspecting short-statured children and infertile women were left to one of this era's rare visionaries, British scrapie expert Alan Dickinson. At about the same time, a British Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution in 1979 raised the possibility that the unregulated cycling of protein-rich sheep remains back into animal feed might spread scrapie to cattle, as it had done to farm mink in the US three decades beforehand, via the oral route.

1979 There was an explosion at a Soviet plant in Sverdlosk and an outbreak of anthrax followed. At the time, allaccusations of BW research were vigorously denied by Soviet officials, with the explanation that anthrax outbreaks can occur naturally and that the explosion was merely a coincidence.

1979 June , a well-dressed, articulate stranger visited the office of the Elberton Granite Finishing Company and announced that he wanted to build an edifice to transmit a message to mankind. He identified himself as R. C. Christian, but it soon became apparent that was not his real name. He said that he represented a group of men who wanted to offer direction to humanity, but to date, almost two decades later, no one knows who R. C. Christian really was, or the names of those he represented. Several things are apparent. The messages engraved on the Georgia Guidestones deal with four major fields: (1) Governance and the establishment of a world government, (2) Population and reproduction control, (3) The environment and man's relationship to nature, and (4) Spirituality. In the public library in Elberton, I found a book written by the man who called himself R.C. Christian. I discovered that the monument he commissioned had been erected in recognition of Thomas Paine and the occult philosophy he espoused. Indeed, the Georgia Guidestones are used for occult ceremonies and mystic celebrations to this very day. Tragically, only one religious leader in the area had the courage to speak out against the American Stonehenge, and he has recently relocated his ministry. The Georgia Guidestones

1981 Aspartame was invented by the G D Searle Co. acquired by Monsanto in 1985. For 16 years FDA refused to approve it until 1981 when Commissioner Arthur Hayes overruled the objections of a Public Board of Inquiry and the protests of the American Soft Drink Association and blessed it. The tests submitted by Searle were so bad the Department of Justice, initiated prosecution of Searle for fraud. Then the defense lawyers hired the prosecutors, Sam Skinner and Wm. Conlon, and the case expired when the statute of limitations ran out. Aspartame/Nutrasweet, a toxin that blinds, drops intelligence, eradicates memory, grows brain tumors and other cancers, brings fatigue. Depression, ADD, panic, rage, paranoia, diabetes, seizures, suicide and death. This toxin is supported by unlimited advertising and the manufacturers pay off the American Diatetics Association, the American Diabetics Association, the AMA, and whomever else, to convince us its safe as rain. These lies are backed by a Federal Bureaucracy knowing it may kill your child, but the bureaucrat who approved the poison got a fat job as have many of his successors. Suppose this government watchdog, ignoring thousands of consumer complaints, has become an Attack Dog protecting corporate corruption. This is the bitter reality of Aspartame/Nutrasweet, Monsanto, the FDA, Coca Cola, Pepsi, and the hundreds of food, drink and drug makers who add to their products a known poison Conceived in Fraud and Dedicated to the Proposition that Profit is all that Matters! (They're Poisoning Our Kids - Aspartame Warning The Facts From Betty Martin Mission-Possible-USA@altavista.net

Dr Miguel A. Baret of the Dominican Republic removed milk from 360 children's diets, because cow's milk has a specific protein that can cause diabetes, especially in children. They drank juice laced with aspartame instead and many developed "abnormal restlessness, lack of concentration, irritability and depression." When Dr Baret removed it: "The results were astonishing. Their symptoms disappeared in 4-6 days in ALL of them!" Thank you, Dr Baret, for this study showing what aspartame does to the brains of our kids!

1984, July 4. The first detailed charges regarding AIDS as a BW weapon were published in the Patriot newspaper in New Delhi, India. It is hard to say where the investigations of this story in the Indian press might have led, if they had not been sidetracked by two major domestic disasters shortly thereafter: the assassination of Indira Gandhi on Oct. 31 and the Bhopal Union Carbide plant "accident" that killed several thousand and injured over 200,000 on Dec. 3.

1985 The first of the fatal legacies of this form of medical madness emerged with four cases of CJD in human pituitary growth hormone-treated children.

1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

1987 Dr Louis Elsas, Professor of Pediatrics & Genetics at Emory University, testified before Congress; "Aspartame is in fact a well known neurotoxin and teratogen [triggers birth defects] which in some undefined dose will irreversibly in the developing child or fetal brain, produce adverse effects I am particularly angry at this type of advertising that is promoting the sale of a neurotoxin in the childhood age group." [Nov 2, 1987]

Neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock, MD, declares Aspartame is a toxin like arsenic and cyanide that causes confusion, disorientation, seizures, cancer, pancreatic, uterine, ovarian and brain tumors and leads to Alzheimer's. Read Excitotoxins, the Taste That Kills [505-474-0303]. Hear Dr. Blaylock's radio interview on http://www.dorway.com' Courageous whistleblowers like these have spoken in three congressional hearings, but industry's lobbying and political action keep the poison in the foods of the world. Our recourse as consumers is personal communication since the media is paid by advertising to push Nutrasweet/Equal/Diet Coke, etc..

1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.

1989 During which time the number of French children at risk of growth-hormone-related CJD had practically doubled, the first French children fulfilled that tragic legacy. In 1993, those responsible for this travesty were threatened with manslaughter charges. By 1997, France had half of the world's 100-plus cases of pituitary hormone-related CJD.

1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and Hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.

1991 Although the general elitism of human-pituitary programs restricted this brand of medical madness to North America, Europe and Australasian, Third World children and women did not altogether escape the insanity of applying Frankenstein medicine to social conditions. A medical report in 1991 linked the CJD death of a young Brazilian man, like those of five youthful New Zealand men and women, with a childhood treatment involving pituitary growth hormone obtained from the US. Unfortunately, the fate of women in Mexico City whose breasts were injected with US pituitary hormones in an appalling experiment to increase the volume of milk in lactating mothers (some already pregnant again) will probably never be known.

1992 It was discovered the federal violence initiative--the federal government's agency-wide plan to go into America's inner cities to experiment on children in the hope of finding genetic and biological causes for violence. We opposed this program as racist and abusive of children. Our efforts led to the cancellation of this program. It also led the chief sponsor of the program, psychiatrist Frederick Goodwin, to resign from his post as director of NIMH and to leave a career in the government. The fenfluramine studies at Columbia and Queens College are part of the violence initiative. They were created under its umbrella before it was cancelled. They confirm our fears that while the public aspects of the violence initiative were withdrawn, the actual individual projects continue unabated.

1992 Boris Yeltsin confirmed that anthrax was being researched at Sverdlosk and vowed to stop all "Soviet" BW research. Unfortunately, defectors have contradicted Yeltsin and there are rumors that although the 'official government' statement and ideal may be an elimination of biological weapons, the military is still actively pursuing a BW program on its own.

1993 The FDA approved aspartame as an ingredient in numerous food items that would always be heated to above 86¡degrees F (30¡Degrees C). An act that can only be described as "unconscionable"

1994 One has only to learn what really happened to the Christians in Rwanda between April and July of 1994 to imagine what may lie in store for Christians here in America at some time in the not-too-distant future. After the Christian Tutsis had been disarmed by governmental decree in the early 1990s, Hutu-led military forces began to systematically massacre the defenseless Christians. The massacre began in April 1994 and continued until July 1994. Using machetes rather than bullets, the Hutu forces were able to create a state of abject fear and terror within the helpless Christian population as they systematically butchered hundreds of thousands of them. The United Nations immediately convened hearings on the genocide taking place in Rwanda, but Madeline Albright, the American Ambassador to the United Nations, argued strenuously that neighboring African nations should not be allowed to intervene until the "civil war had come to an end." In reality, of course, there was no civil war since those being slaughtered had no weapons with which to defend themselves; it was simply a matter of mass murder. In addition to blocking intervention by neighboring nations, Madeline Albright also insisted that the word "genocide" must not be used, and that the United Nations forces stationed in Rwanda were not to be allowed to intervene. In the three months that followed, between one-half and three-quarters of a million Christians were systematically dismembered, hacked to death, and slaughtered in the bloody carnage that ensued. Tens of thousands of Christians were murdered in their churches; tens of thousands more were murdered in their hospitals and in their schools. On several occasions, United Nations soldiers stationed in Rwanda actually handed over helpless Christians under their protection to members of the Hutu militia. They then stood by as their screaming charges were unceremoniously hacked to pieces. At the end of the carnage, in late July 1994, the American government rewarded the Hutu murderers with millions of dollars in foreign aid. Strangely, the American press has remained silent Subversion Of The Free Press By The CIA about the fact that almost all of those who were slaughtered were Christians, and it was the policies of our government that were primarily responsible for blocking efforts by neighboring African countries to intervene. The Population Control Agenda

1994 With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made. See also The Resnick Interview with Peter Kawaja and Ex-NSA Agent Joe Jordan

1995 Dr Phyllis Mullenix, former head of toxicology at Forsyth Dental Center in Boston and now a critic of fluoridation. Animal studies which Mullenix and co-workers conducted at Forsyth in the early 1990s indicated that fluoride was a powerful central nervous system (CNS) toxin and might adversely affect human brain functioning even at low doses. (New epidemiological evidence from China adds support, showing a correlation between low-dose fluoride exposure and diminished IQ in children.) Mullenix's results were published in 1995 in a reputable peer-reviewed scientific journal.

1995 The University of Rochester's classified fluoride studies, code-named "Program F", were started during the war and continued up until the early 1950s. They were conducted at its Atomic Energy Project (AEP), a top-secret facility funded by the AEC and housed at Strong Memorial Hospital. It was there that one of the most notorious human radiation experiments of the Cold War took place, in which unsuspecting hospital patients were injected with toxic doses of radioactive plutonium. Revelation of this experiment-in a Pulitzer Prize&endash;winning account by Eileen Welsome-led to a 1995 US presidential investigation and a multimillion-dollar cash settlement for victims.

1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.

1995 Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.

1996, 27 June without public notice, the FDA removed all restrictions from aspartame allowing it to be used in everything, including all heated and baked goods. The truth about aspartame's toxicity is far different than what the NutraSweet Company would have you readers believe.

1996 A new scientific paper dealing with a meta-analysis of 23 different scientific studies on the relationship between first-trimester abortions and breast cancer was published in a British medical journal. That study clearly demonstrated a higher incidence of breast cancer in women who had had first-trimester abortions. In response to that publication, the American Medical Association (AMA), the American Cancer Society (ACS), and pro-abortion/population-control advocates joined together in an unholy alliance to attack the conclusions of the authors, and to block all efforts to disseminate that information to American physicians. The Population Control Agenda

1997 October. Speaking from Washington, DC, Nobel Prize winner for discovering the role of molecules known as "prions" in the invariably fatal brain illnesses such as "mad cow disease" or bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle, and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) in humans, Dr Stanley Prusiner from the University of California predicted that the first drug therapy, which would not necessarily be a cure for BSE or CJD, was at least five years away. At the same time, on the opposite side of the Atlantic, the post-mortem of Chris Warne, a 36-year-old fitness fanatic from Derbyshire, England, revealed that he was the 21st victim of the new variant of CJD which had spread from BSE-infected cattle to humans via the food chain. Only 18 months earlier, a British House of Commons admission that BSE-infected meat had probably caused the CJD deaths of 10 youthful Britons left the British meat industry in tatters. Since then, the history of BSE has gradually unfolded to reveal a brain-dead imperialism, one which, while blinded by its own arrogant greed to inflate market profits, has treated public and, indeed, world health with gay abandon. Formerly a rare disease which affected less than one per million in most countries, one worst-case scenario predicts that BSE-infected meat will push the incidence of CJD in humans to claim 10,000 British lives by the year 2000, and a further 10 million by the year 2010. Another predicts that half the British people, some 30 million, will be left brain-dead by CJD. As Chris Warne's mother commented, her son was a health-conscious sportsman, but "after winning medals in March, by July he couldn't stand on his feet, and by October he was gone". Volume 5, #1

Researchers at the US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (or USAMRIID) at Fort Detrick in Frederick MD have reconstructed and modified the H1N1 Spanish Flu virus, making it far more deadly than it ever was back when it was responsible for the 1918-1919 flu pandemic that killed over 20 million worldwide and over 500,000 here in the US.

FRANCE is facing a new health scandal following allegations that the prestigious Pasteur Institute willfully ignored warnings that up to 600 children were being injected with cancerous hormones.

The disclosures that children may have been put at risk emerged during a new investigation into the link between the growth hormones and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), which caused Amajor scandal when acknowledged in the Nineties . So far, 74 children have died of CJD after being treated with growth hormones extracted from the bodies of victims of neurological illnesses in the Eighties.

That scandal and the contaminated blood affair in which 4,000 people were infected with HIV through unscreened blood transfusions - despite the availability of an American test for the virus - have contributed to France's acute sensitivity on health issues. When the contaminated blood affair came to trial in 1998 , it was alleged that authorization for the American test was withheld to give the institute time to develop a rival French test.

The latest claims suggest that in 1985 the institute sold a batch of growth hormone to French hospitals without waiting for safety checks which showed the batch to have cancer marker cells at five times the permitted limit for use. The institute is further alleged to have made no efforts to withdraw the batch once it was aware of the risk.

The above work was researched from the following resources. History of Biological Warfare * References

Chemtrail Lab Analysis -Virulent Bio-Toxin Soup *Eugenics * http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame * http://www.nexusmagazine.com * The Population Control Agenda * http://www.dorway.com/ Get links to over 200 sites on aspartame * US Government Experiments On Children During The Cold War * The Drugging of Kids and Garbage Science in America * http://www.healthnewsnet.com/humanexperiments.html * Secret Military Biological Experiments On US Citizens Was Legal The Malthusian Premise cobden_club.htm W. H .O. Murdered Africa



Click here to read more!



THE MESSAG


Bill Milo - 12/2/2003

Mr. Kottmann, "a" bank did business with "people"? Get a clue, everything you state is based on ignorance of some easily verifiable history.
#1. Yes ofcourse it was "legal" to do business with Germany prior to declaring war. Do you think war "breaks out" as the news is fond of saying? WW2 was carefully planned financed and created by the international banking cartel. Throughout the thirties the rockefellers, rothschilds, morgans and a host of other minions (like the bushes), were laying the groundwork for this war. Please read some history. Try "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G.Edward Griffin for starters.
#2.Consider the source? Your only counter to good information is slander and rejection, as it doesn't fit your paradigm. You are no Bernstein and Woodward either.
#3.OFCOURSE there was "no problem" with bush, rockefeller, dulles, etc. doing business with the fascists of europe as they were some of the key members of the international fascists, ie: banking, intelligence, and industry, the very ones that created and financed the war. I suggest you also study up on the creation of the first WW. Very similar.
#4. "Does anyone doubt that if there had been any real complicity with Nazi Germany that the entire bank would have been seized and everyone involved tossed in prison?"-Now that is really silly. Do you really think there is anyone capable of "seizing" an international banking cartel member? These people pick presidents and control politicians at every level. This fact is not even hidden, just a little investigative reading will yield a mountain of historical evidence, but one must dismiss the TV reality as that is pure smokescreen. The media industry is controlled by the very same military/industrial complex which are controlled by the finance cartel and their puppet politicians. There is little "secret" or "conspiracy" about it. Just read with an open mind instead of the reactionary attack which you level at a totally reasonable and factual article.
#5. "Does anyone doubt that the Carville smear machine would not have used this in 1992 (or 2000) if there was a shred of documentation that actually tied Prescott Bush to the Nazis?
" - Now that is really silly again. Carville smear machine? Because he has the courage to print factual data that clashes with your preconceived notions of truth he is a smear machine? That is laughable. There is not only a shred of evidence, there is a mountain of it. A good deal of it was in the article you ridiculed.
#6. Yes, by all means it would be good to check out "all the banks" and their business relations with axis powers. You need to know however that 80% of all banking at the time was represented by the names mentioned above. Small independent banks had no influence, only the powerful international banking cartel could create and finance large-scale wars. If this clashes with your schoolbook belief system, I understand, just don't kid yourself that you are knowledgeable of modern history. There is a mountain of evidence available if you have the courage to examine it and let it lead you to a bigger picture of the truth.

Best Regards


Garrison - 12/1/2003

What sort of "legacy" does a "poor criminal" leave to her children?

As you imply a member of the Bush family was a criminal: Precisely where in the referenced article did an account of criminal charges filed against any member of the Bush family appear?

As for the children of the rich -- or the poor -- getting a "pass": Last I looked, in AMERICA, sons and grandsons and great grandsons do not inherit the "sins" of those who came before them.

The Bush family Nazi connection is an oddity in a jar put on display in a sideshow by hucksters seeking to separate Bush-hating, far left bumpkins from their dollars at the left-wing carniv
al.


C.R.W. - 11/30/2003

that you would think so. Especially given that the most disgustingly anti-Semitic political impulses in the U.S. are aligned with the left, Bush's opponents, and that anti-Jewish conspiracy theories and a malignment of Israel or its right to self-defense so often accompany attacks on Bush and his administration's foreign policy.

Anti-Semitism is as un-American as any other ideology that forsakes freedom and personal responsibility, and replaces those ideals with guilt by association, either through the purely arbitrary existence of family ties or financial institutions whose future role nobody could have predicted or done much about.


Harmon Brody - 11/29/2003

Given the poor sense of history that most Americans have and the lack of conscience, it is not surprising that they would continue to respect a so-called president who has a family lineage of anti-semitism of racism as well as other pro-Nazi components.

When G.W. Bush spoke at the Auschwitz site last year the local papers blasted him becasue his grandfather traded in slave labor via Brown Brothers Harriman. The American press neglected to report this although it did appear in the Polish version of Newsweek.


Walkman - 11/29/2003

CRAM, I do understand your sentiments, but I think that buchanan suggests that when the offspring of power takes the dirty baton, it is taken from a power source that is based upon corruption and the source of wealth that gets passed on is still dirty. Funny how in ongoing criminal racketeering instances, the ricco act can be applied and all the ill-begotten holdings are forfeited, but ironically, not in this case. It has nothing really to do with the sins of the father. Maybe it is more about the sins of the father's money.


Derrick Gibson - 11/29/2003

I came late to this party from a link on MSNBC in Eric Alterman's "Altercation" weblog, but I would like to give kudos to Greg for pulling out what is indeed the key point. Endlessly chasing ones tail around crimes committed half a century ago by those long dead is an interesting pub game, but provides no direction for the future.

To NYGuy: not sure if you read the article or are merely just a plant in this discussion here to obfuscate and add to the fear, uncertainty and doubt that surely arises when fascism is the topic, but your contributions to this thread are best described as nonsensical.

Going back to the original quote the Mr. Koos pulled out as the key point; the "they" refers to:

"leaders of major German companies such as automaker Daimler Benz, electrical manufacturers AEG and Siemans, and most of Germany’s large mining, steelmaking, chemical, and construction companies"

Provide your own quote or another source if you would like to take the discussion in another direction, to where we all might be brought in on the joke you appear to find so funny. Until then, give Mr. Koos his respect for attempting to open our eyes with regard to concessions toward power capital has always made.

Let me be clear on the point Mr. Koos was trying to make as I read it - as an uninvolved interpreter with no previous horse in this race: Mr. Koos makes no comment either pro or con on Buchanan's thesis. What he does provide is an analysis of some supporting text provided by the author of this article - Herbet Parmet - that references another text authored by Christopher Simpson. If you have a problem with Buchanan's thesis, start your own thread and argue it there. If you want to take Mr. Koos post and say that it does not impugn the character of any member of the Bush family, please do so. That in no way tarnishes the post as representing the key point that we, as that enlightened citizenship, should take away on our quest to craft that more perfect union we have been tasked with creating.


Holly Berkowitz - 11/29/2003



And the meaning of the word "democracy" becomes hollow unless.....our people find access to freedom from manipulation of the press for political gain, for cash as the Bush family has manipulated the cash-driven press for more than 60 years to seize totalitarian control of our pocketbooks, our children, our cities, our lives......but not our souls.

We will stand up and speak out to demand accountability of this treason that crushes the freedom we need to function as a nation. Or Bush will push "unending wars" on U.S. to fill private pocketbooks of war profiteers that filled Hitler's pocketbooks also, to push the many unsuspecting down, down into the heavy weights of the negative, hungry negatives that consume us alive.

Give us back our democracy. Now.

We need to count more than cash to understand the meaning of the word "democracy" of, by, for All. But I don't believe that the Bush family and the cash-driven military-industrial-corporate-media complex wants to count more than cash.

We need a new kind of economy that balances nature's budget impossible to count in cash. We need a new kind of economy that values longterm public outcomes of quality, of logic of life as much as short-term private rates of quantities or numbers of cashflow floods, cashflow floods that crush the many.

Dismantle the cash-driven propaganda machine that is ruining our lives. Now.

Impeach Bush now.


C.R.W. - 11/28/2003



Not all of us are mental monoliths.

I don't have a problem with the article exposing and ruminating over what occured over 60 years ago, I just don't think it has personal relevance to George W. Bush or his political career. I'm vindicated in expressing this idea because some people refuse to acknowledge the existence of ties between business and politics that are impossible to extinguish, yet persist in repeating this theme as a way to excoriate inheritants of a system they did not invent. The time-absent context supplied by people who would superimpose the conditions of "twenty years ago" on the events of today or any other era is one way to blur the crucial distinctions that prevent a simplistic "guilt by association" mindset.

I'm no fan of betraying the leaders of the post-Gulf War uprising, so it's too bad I have to disappoint you on the attempted straw man. Although it would be less likely to occur if you didn't lump a series of posts in with a childishly simplistic worldview that doesn't get much more complicated than political duality.

It is legitimate to question the wisdom of supplying chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein (or anyone for that matter). Supporting his side in a war against the Iranian theocrats, slightly less unwise. But equivocating between the use of such weapons in war versus their use against entire villages populating his own people in order to quash political dissent, morally blind and reprehensible.


Charles - 11/28/2003

It is ironic that CRW should be so impressed by the solicitude that the right has for Saddam's victims. Twenty years ago, Donald Rumsfeld supplied the chemical precursors that Saddam used to construct chemical weapons. Twenty years ago, those who were trying to prevent Saddam from committing mass murder were largely on the left.

It is ironic that CRW should believe that Buchanan's piece somehow blames the grandson for the grandfather's crimes. Would he rather that Prescott Bush's crimes never be brought to light?

This seems to be the perversity of the era we are in: those who should be fighting for openness are trying to silence those who are trying to bring forth the historical truth. Those who enabled Saddam to commit his crimes-- indeed, those who BETRAYED the Kurds and the Marsh Shia when they rose against Saddam in 1991-- are now exalted for having "liberated" the Iraqis they let be enslaved.


Charles Utwater II - 11/27/2003

How can so many otherwise intelligent people miss the point of Buchanan's work?

The issue is NOT whether GW Bush is a Nazi. There is no evidence he is and no such implication from Buchanan's work.

But how did PRESCOTT BUSH escape press scrutiny during his campaigns for the Senate?

Why were GHW Bush's connections to (non-German) fascists from the Hitler era-- which resulted on 5 of them being expelled from his 1988 campaign-- never discussed?

And why are the ties of both GW and GHW Bush to Reverend Sun Myung Moon and other modern totalitarians rarely brought up?

A good case can be made that three generations of the Bush family are opportunists. There's no evidence that any, except perhaps Prescott, adopted the ideology of the people they served. But opportunism is not an automatic disqualifier for public office.

What SHOULD be a disqualifier is that somehow the Bush family controls the press thoroughly enough that their faults cannot be examined.

Buchanan (above) describes the import of the story in terms of how GW Bush felt free to invade Iraq, knowing that no one would investigate the lies he told to push the nation into war. But I would say, focus on the press-- the enablers who allowed a completely unfit man to assume the position of Commander in Chief.


Ralph E. Luker - 11/25/2003

Regardless, Mr. Smart, I know what you meant to put in quotation marks. I do not believe that it qualifies as the kind of ad hominem remarks which occasionally marr these discussions and -- given what you must have seen appear here on occasion -- if you are being honest with the rest of us, you will admit that that is so.


Wesley Smart - 11/24/2003


Wesley Smart - 11/24/2003

This is unacceptable. I entered text into the box and placed it in quotations. I posted my message. I revisited the site several times and seen the post as complete whilst waiting for your response. Now I see your post and in checking my own to read it again I see that its contents have been removed.

I would like to believe that the editors of HNN are not up to such meddling in the posts, but I cannot believe otherwise.

I am finished with this site if the editors are willfully and selectively removing parts of people's comments. Either block the whole site or make everyone log in with registered names. Don't selectively edit.


Ralph E. Luker - 11/24/2003

Mr. Smart, You apparently didn't find any disfiguring ad hominems to fill in your 2nd set of quotation marks. That makes my point, doesn't it?


Marianne - 11/24/2003



Americans are not going to tolerate a police state.

I hope you're right.


Wesley Smart - 11/24/2003

From your blog of yesterday (11/22/03):

"HNN's comment board is occasionally disfigured by ad hominem remarks which I'm known to discourage."

From your post at the top of this thread:
"


Wesley Smart - 11/24/2003

I wonder how you know that bin Laden is not in Afghanistan? The U.S. military is carrying out operations along the Afghan-Pakistani border. Just last week U.S. soldiers were killed in those actions. When the Al Qaeda/Taliban forces move across the border into Pakistan, the U.S. soldiers cannot follow them, but must instead call in the Pakistani soldiers, who have only recently begun to operate in the tribal Pashtun border region. But perhaps bin Laden isn't in Pakistan. Maybe he's in Iran. At least that's what some middle east watchers have gleaned from the local press. Hmm..so if he's in Iran, then the U.S. forces can't go into Iran either, since that would precipitate a larger conflict that the Bush administration isn't really interested in starting up just yet. Of course, it's always possible that U.S. special forces teams already are in Iran tracking bin Laden, but then we wouldn't hear about any of it anyway. You're right to question the corporate media, which is really just another business selling you something. You'd be fool, though, to make pronouncements about anything unless you're reading the local press very very closely.

But then again, you are the Joker.


The Joker - 11/24/2003

"nazi, fascist, corporatist, whatever. the way you spell what they are is c-h-i-c-k-e-n-s-h-i-t."

Can't argue with that.


The Joker - 11/24/2003

Wesley,

"You haven't any idea of what units are actually in Afghanistan right now, do you?"

That is actually a pointless debate. Because Bin-Laden is not stupid enough, to hangout in Afghanistan, any more than Saddam would be in Iraq. Bin-Laden is no longer in Afghanistan, Saddam is no longer in Iraq, and the corporate media is a joke.


Herodotus - 11/23/2003

I think we're seeing the trolls popping in again. I'd be willing to put money down that the NYGUY we see regularly is not the person who posted these comments. Especially with the bit about posting under fake names; stand fast, Joker, and wait for the real NYGUY to return.


Wesley Smart - 11/23/2003

You haven't any idea of what units are actually in Afghanistan right now, do you?


The Joker - 11/23/2003

NYGuy,

"Am I supposed to believe unsupported accusations by someone who does not have the courage to give their true identity."

First: If you're looking for support of accusations, you need to look somewhere other than FOX NEWS.

And 2nd: I like how you side-stepped my comment, regarding the name you are posting under.


The Joker - 11/23/2003

Marianne,

"Following the example of the current president's policies in Iraq, the police are launching PRE-EMPTIVE crowd control tactics."

Yeah, and they began these PRE-EMPTIVE arrests, as early as monday, 3 days before the protests were scheduled. Is that phoney, or what.

And I'll tell you...people are not going to forget about what happened on friday. If we don't see any heads rolling over this, it's likely that actuall "rioting" may begin to spring up.

Americans are not going to tolerate a police state.


Marianne - 11/22/2003


Joker, you wrote:

First you have to have someone rioting, and damaging property, before you can justify attacking people.

No, no, you're not getting it.

Following the example of the current president's policies in Iraq, the police are launching PRE-EMPTIVE crowd control tactics.

See, they KNOW just by looking at them that all those people shouting slogans and carrying signs can't be up to any good. They're acting to protect property and preserve the peace before anyone starts acting out. They're not attacking people. They're preserving the peace. Yes, preserving the peace by attacking people.

Sounds kind of Lewis Carroll, doesn't it? Or George Orwell...


Marianne - 11/22/2003



Hey, Guy (Friend),

The safety I was referring to has to do with domestic issues.

(Though I do feel a bit less safe in the world of terrorism since the invasion of Iraq with its monumental expenditures of U.S. capital--fiscal and human) and galvanizing of "foes of freedom".)

As to the world "embracing GW's 'genius'". That fascinates me.

Which world are we talking about? Please. Name names. Be speciifc.


NYGuy - 11/22/2003

Joker,

"I don't appreciate the negative consequenses of exercising free speech. Getting arrested, or fired from your job, because you spoke out, is a crime against humanity."

NYGuy,

Am I supposed to believe unsupported accusations by someone who does not have the courage to give their true identity.

With all this secrecy by the Democrats it is no wonder people are afraid of a shadow government.

it is time we took our government back from such Fascists.


The Joker - 11/22/2003

"PS: I don't appreciate those who post here under false names."

I don't appreciate the negative consequenses of exercising free speech. Getting arrested, or fired from your job, because you spoke out, is a crime against humanity.

Am I supposed to believe that "NY Guy" is a real name?


The Joker - 11/22/2003

"Sorry to burst your bubble, Tim McVeigh, but We the People were never endowed by our Creator with a right to riot and damage property."

Fist you have to have someone rioting, and damaging property, before you can justify attacking people.


NYGuy - 11/22/2003

Joker,

"Who do you find more antimidating, the Al-Qaeda terrorist, who noone can find, or our own domestic law enforcement, strutting around in riot gear(which resembles that of the imperial stormtroopers), attacking Americans?"

NYGuy,

Your comment betrays narrow thinking. Al-Qaeda is a global threat along, with other fanatics in the world who want to kill non believers and enslave them. Since you are blinded to this fact you can make unsubstantiated accusations. We all understand the "hate america" philosophy, it has been presented many times.

As usually we see only complainers with no solutions and despite their fear of living in this country do not have the courage to protect themselves and move to a safer locale.

But that is the pricre of freedom and what makes this country so great. Fortuneately we have true Americans who understand that we are at war and use common sense to protect us.

Thank you GW for you wisdom and foresight.

PS: I don't appreciate those who post here under false names.


Prometheus - 11/22/2003

Sorry to burst your bubble, Tim McVeigh, but We the People were never endowed by our Creator with a right to riot and damage property. I think it's somewhere in the Constitution. Hope your rebellion goes about as well as the one George Washington quelled.


"Like fire I bore the gift of freedom, and out of contempt for my foresight the god of the ideological left chained me to a rock while a vulture tore at my gut."

Prometheus


Prometheus - 11/22/2003

I think one of the reasons Cram has trouble accepting this stems from the same sort of thinking that many American Jews on the left (and others) believe that Arafat can be appeased. They don't want to believe that they can unwittingly ignore the true dimension of someone's evil designs until it's too late. Especially if they're benefiting from the temporary psychological shield of distance, hope, "goodwill," or political/economic benefit.

As far as Bush being a genius, I understand all the arguments you've made, and they just sound like common sense. It's too bad more Americans can't appreciate the foresight involved on his part. I realize he's smart in a political sense, and appreciate that his sense of conviction and action is leading him in a direction that the rest of the free world (assuming it exists) can thank us for later in this century.

The following link provides a good commentary on how ignoring or withdrawing from threats only increases the danger:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-stewart21nov21,1,6260592.story?coll=la-headlines-oped-manual

War sucks but it sure beats the alternative of living an existence devoid of freedom or under the constant threat of its denial.

"Like fire I bore the gift of freedom, and out of contempt for my foresight the god of the ideological left chained me to a rock while a vulture tore at my guts."

Prometheus


The Joker - 11/22/2003

The riot police, right here in America, are a perfect of example of that someonelse, being assigned to commit acts of violence.


The Joker - 11/22/2003

Wesley, Before our soldiers, in Afghanistan can hunt down, Osama Bin-Forgotten, they have to actually be ordered to do so. Not everyone is convinced that our government is putting any effort into doing this. In fact, he appears to be more valuable, on the loose.


The Joker - 11/22/2003

Who do you find more antimidating, the Al-Qaeda terrorist, who noone can find, or our own domestic law enforcement, strutting around in riot gear(which resembles that of the imperial stormtroopers), attacking Americans?

In fact, if they do not back off on their aggression, they are going to incite a rebellion.


NYGuy - 11/22/2003

Marianne,

You have spirit and conviction. Two out of three is not bad.

Look at how the world has embraced GW's genius as we all recognize his war on terror. This will be the biggist issue of the 21st century and our wonderful president has show the world this terrible even. He is like Winston Churchill in his wisdom.

I know I feel safer because of his leaership. Why can't you loosen up and face reality.

Your friend,

NYGuy


Marianne - 11/21/2003


That's the convenience of the crimes of the rich and influential.

You don't have to go looking for them.

They can mug you in the comfort of your own home.


Crazy Bigot - 11/21/2003

Marianne, I'm a bigot so I know better.

I do hobnob with the rich whenever I can, and I've never been assaulted.

Wanna take a walk with me thru Cabrini-Green in Chicago?

Put your life where your mouth is.


Brett Kottmann - 11/21/2003

I am shocked, shocked I say to find out that a bank had financial dealings with people.

A little context: up until the time Germany declared war on the US, it was legal to do business with Germany. Up until the end of the war no one (in the west) knew about the death camps. There were rumors, but until we actually liberated the camps that is all they were.

Also consider the sources: a couple of people with axes to grind and a guy with a website who bought the newspaper name of an ancestor. Not exactly Woodward and Bernstein.

There was not a problem with anyone, including Bush, Rockefeller, Dulles, etc. doing business with their customers, even if their customers lived in dictatorships/supported tyrants. Even Lend-Lease was open to Axis powers (in theory).

I strongly suspect the "trading with the enemy" act was designed to allow the Federal government to seize assets of Axis powers and their subjects so that other people (and banks) would not have "first dibs" on them.

Does anyone doubt that if there had been any real complicity with Nazi Germany that the entire bank would have been seized and everyone involved tossed in prison? Does anyone doubt that the Carville smear machine would not have used this in 1992 (or 2000) if there was a shred of documentation that actually tied Prescott Bush to the Nazis?

There is nothing to this story except innuendo and half-truths. A far better story would contrast all the banks that had business with Axis powers on December 7th, 1941 and what they did in the ensuing years.

Sheesh, there was a stronger case for the Clintons being involved in criminal behavior with regards to Whitewater.


Marianne - 11/21/2003

I never inferred nor did I mean to imply any socio-economic status with respect to Mr Moser. And if my message gave the impression that I thought he was an elitist or that he himself belongs to a country club, I apologize. I never thought that.

What I took from your statement, Mr. Moser, was the idea that you would feel safer in a country club than in a slum, because you perceive the violent crime rate among the privileged to be lower than among the poor. Which is just what you're saying now so apparently I was not mistaken.

My point, on the other hand, you seem to be missing.

That is: anti social behaviors and crime flourish in the classes of wealth and status as well as in the slums, and in a way that makes many of us feel just as unsafe as "walking through the streets of an inner city after dark." Americans get mugged, raped and swindled quite a bit by the corruptions of the wealthy.

Guthrie a Stalinist? I never knew that--though I certainly knew he was left-wing. I just thought he made a good point with the line I used of his.



Ralph E. Luker - 11/21/2003

Mr. Smart, Would you like to spell out your accusation against me? As it stands, it is an attack without substance. What am I ignorant of? Flesh it out.


NYGuy - 11/21/2003

Cram

With all due respect sir, I really don’t think you have any idea what you are talking about

“I am not quite sure of what to make of your "interpretation" of history, but I must confess that your post seriously calls your credibility into question.”

NYGuy,

Cram, I teach you all I know and you still don’t know anything. :)

Professor Parmet

In view of all the financial transactions involving Germany during this period, the role of that major Jewish banking family, the Warburgs (which also did business with the Harriman group), demonstrates some of the realities of the flow of capital. The Warburgs, backed by such American groups as B’nai B’rith and the American Jewish Committee, demanded in 1934, according to Tarpley and Chaitkin, that “American Jews not ‘agitate’ against the Hitler government” or participate in any pro-Nazi boycott. Such denial about Nazi objectives was not unusual at the time. Aryan laws, at that point in German history, were still less tangible than the marketplace.

NYGuy

Max Warburg joined the German Army as a young man and wanted to make a career in the German army. Eventially he went into the family banking business which was about 140 years old. In the early 1930’s he used his position to become a close friend of the prominent Nazi Hjalmar Schacht, president of the Reichsbank the German Federal Bank. Even after the law of 1933, which decreed that all Jews be barred from government service and the universities, as well as from the professions he still continued to dine with his Nazi friend Schacht.

Although further restrictions were put on Jews he still was able to hold on to the family bank, in Germany, and submitted the Warburg Plan which would help get German Jews out of Germany. The plan eventually fell on the desk of the Fuehrer.

In 1938 he went to NY to promote his Warburg plan when he found out of the burning of the shops and synagogues, (Kristallnacht.) He became disillusioned and did not return to Germany and wrote his memoirs in which he spoke of how an important Jew survived under Hitler until late 1937-1938. He became an American citizen in 1944.

You also remember that the Olympics were held in Germany in 1936 and the country enjoyed a great tourist trade during the mid-1930’s as people from around the world, including America, flocked to Nazi Germany.

I offer these examples to show that many Germans Jews still considered themselves Germans and thought they could survive under Hitler. The point is that if native-born German Jews did business with Hitler, how can we in hindsight selectively choose others, such as Harriman, and accuse him of knowingly supporting Hitler's policies.

I have no doubts about the Holocaust, nor of the persecution and terror the Jews faced in Germany. I lived through the Second World War and saw what it did to my family and friends. So you see I am not an apologist for Hitler.

We are talking about history, however, and the period was complex and not everyone knew what Hitler would do. Actually there were even worst conditions in Russia.

As shown with Max Warburg there were Jews who really considered themselves Germans, and as with Chamberlain in 1939, thought they could deal with Hitler. Meanwhile there were many non- Jewish businessmen who also thought they could deal with Hitler, such as Thyssen, and many of them were also disillusioned.

I found the following breakdown of Hitler’s regime, which I believe, gives a good overview of the period. It was put together by F. H. Thomas, who notes that Hitler had the full support of the Deutsche Bank, many of whose board members were still Jewish, and indeed doing relatively well in 1936. And he adds, even Churchill acknowledges the German’s economic and business prowess, which is interesting, since it was not until about 1940 that Churchill started to be one of the few who was warning about Hitler’s evil.

And of course, Chamberlain thought he could deal with a normal person such as Hitler and signed the Munich Pact with Hitler in 1938. Soon after, Germany went to war.

Cram, my comments were limited to the 1930’s. While there were horrible things happening during this period it was not until after 1939 that the worst part of the Nazi regime took place, particularly when Himmler enters the scene.

F. H. Thomas

In terms of chronology, I find a difficulty in assigning some dates because the Third Reich was full of petty divisions and independent operations. For example "Kristallnacht" was an entirely independent operation against Jewish shopkeepers done by Goebbels and the Roehm's Brown Shirts (SA) against Hitler's direct orders. A Jewish man whose parents were prevented from travelling back into the Reich from Poland took revenge by killing the popular German consul in Paris. Goebbels cranked up the propaganda response to a fever, to assure support, and the Brownshirts did the rest. Hitler was furious, because it was a PR disaster in which the murdered consul, the fine economic growth, and the Olympics were forgotten.

Nonetheless, we can say:

1921-25 Hitler hired as government spy on various splinter groups, including the German Worker's Party. Becomes a convinced anti-Semite, and joins the party, merging it with National Socialists.

1925-30. Although Hitler is an exceptional public speaker, the party gains few votes, until the great depression. Organization is strengthened.

1932. NSDAP party earns 33% of vote, a plurality. A dying Hindenburg asks Hitler to form a government.

1932-1936. Hitler's government impressively and comprehensively expands the economy, to an 11% growth rate, best in the world, rearms secretly, occupies the Rhineland, builds Autobahns, wins 1936 election overwhelmingly. Hitler basks in glory at 1936 Olympics in Berlin.

1938. Kristallnacht.

1940. Poland taken. Jews forcibly re-located in Ghettos. Disease is the grim reaper.

1941. Barbarossa, the drive against Russia to the east. First deliberate culling and killing of Kommissars, presumed to be Jewish, on Hitler's order. As captured Russians, Belorussians, and Ukranians are heavily recruited by the SS, most of whom have a deep grudge against Kommissars, whom they equte with Jews, mass killings begin of non-Kommissar Jews, whole families at a time. This grudge exists to this day in these countries.

1942, February. Conference held at Wannsee (residential lake area in Berlin), at the home of a former Jewish banker, to coordinate the "Endloesung", or final solution. A gifted stenographer leaves us a complete verbatim record. All involved branches of government attend. Heydrich chairs. Dr Lange provides a written report on the success of Einsatzgrueppen in the East, complete with grotesque little coffins on a map to indicate the number of Jews killed. Immediately the conflict between the needs of manufacturing (then under Fritz Todt) and those of Himmler for expulsion, becomes clear. Todt's representative must have the skilled labor which these evacuees represent. A compromise results, with most KZ as "arbeitslager", or workcamps, with manufacturing to be relocated there.

1942-45. The Arbeitslager program, transferred to Speer on Todt's death, becomes a spectacular asset, with Auschwitz its crown jewel as a manufacturing facility, in the process saving the lives probably of millions of workers, and allowing a truly remarkable war production increase. The Polish Ghettos are evacuated to Auschwitz while German Jews are evacuated to Buchenwald and Dachau, which are organized similarly. New camps of the other kind, called relocation camps, are built, under Himmler, with murderous but more poorly documented results.

1943-45. The years of the grim reaper. Lice spread Cholera (like diarrhea times 10) and Typhus (death by fever), at the same time, in two pandemics, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths in the Arbeitslager camps. Ann Frank died as a manufacturing worker during this period of Typhus. These diseases cause a major but temporary drop in war production.

1945. US British and Russian troops liberate the camps, and see the ravages of a recently endured wave of Cholera: extreme emaciation, sunken eyes, passivity, much death.


At times I tell myself that I cannot look on this terrible record any longer, but somehow make myself do it. The 20th century is a horror which, for all of its pain, must be finally reconciled.

NYGuy,

Enjoy corresponding with you.

Cheers


NYGuy - 11/20/2003

Marianne

“Speaking for myself, I don't feel as safe in the world (slums, country clubs or wherever) since the Bush administration invaded and has our troops occupying Iraq as I did before that very expensive act of war.”

NYGuy

John, I read your comments and found nothing offensive and don’t follow the comments made. For some it is all about rich and poor, unless someone else raises the point. For others, such as Marianne, everyone is to be feared because of Bush and she admits she is a nervous Nellie under any conditions today so you have to take her comments with a grain of salt.

You can’t please everyone, but, as a New Yorker, I applaud your street smarts, it could save your life. .


John Moser - 11/20/2003

Oh, come on. Go back and read my original post. It says nothing about the sort of people with whom I'd rather associate (thanks to Wesley Smart for pointing this out as well). All I said was that I would feel safer in a country club than in a slum. I do not belong to a country club, nor do I hobnob with the rich and famous. However, if I were to attend a country club party, the fear of being physically assaulted or robbed would be far less than it would if I were walking through the streets of an inner city at night. This is a commonsense statement, and I defy anyone on this list to say that he or she believes otherwise. Moreover, I'm willing to bet that people who actually have to live in slums would feel safer in country clubs as well.

"Marianne" cites the example of Durst, as if reminding me that there are such things as evil rich people undermines my point. It does not, just as it would not if someone were to make a list of all the good, law-abiding people who live in slums (and of course there are a great many such people). Look at crime rates in wealthy neighborhoods versus those in inner cities and tell me where there is more crime. Go ahead, include all the statistics for "white-collar crime" just so the Stalinist Woody Guthrie doesn't feel slighted. Then tell me whether or not I'm "imagining the rich as unlikely to threaten us with physical harm."


NYGuy - 11/20/2003

Gregg,

Shows how little you know. I am an old salt, and it is not only spit that I don't spray into the wind:)

By the way which side is the lee side?

Cheers and have a nice day.


NYGuy - 11/20/2003

Thanks Bill,

Hope no harm done.

You too have a good day.

Cheers


Greg Koos - 11/20/2003

I didn't suppose that someone who hides his or her identity would take this very seriously anyway. NY Guy is spitting into the. wind


Bill Maher - 11/20/2003



No problem. I have been known to go off half-cocked on occasion. Have a good day.


NYGuy - 11/20/2003

I looked up one of the words I used in my post. Althoug it is in the dictionary it was described as vulgar. Sorry for my lack of knowledge. The more acceptable term is teat, I would, however, like to modify my comment as follows:

"Seems strange to hear such idealist speech by those who live off the nipples of business and terrorists."

No offense intended and I hope none is taken.

Sorry


NYGuy - 11/20/2003

Bill,

"Whose purity. What ends?" Businessmen made money off Nazi Germany. Let them burn in hell. But those quoted above were deeper folks. Burning is to good for them."

NYGuy

Your appeal for purity is touching. But what of your own purity and that of the history profession teaching in our colleges and universities.

As I understand it tuition is not sufficient to meet the schools costs which includes money to cover profesdsors and teachers salaries. To pay these Professors they therefore solicit funds from business and are even willing to accept anonomysus gifts, as in the case of Columbia, accept blood money that may be coming from terrorist organizations.

Seems strange to hear such idealist speech by those who live off the tits of business and terrorists.


NYGuy - 11/20/2003

John,
.
. of course, there was also some limited reporting on this matter in the 1940s .

NYGuy,

Good try John, but historians, investigative reporters, Jewish organizations, etc. have been researching the Nazi regime for over 60 years and are not advocating what you and others are. Meanwhile, while some claim new evidence nothing of consequence has been produced. If you have evidence than produce, don't see me you talked with someone who said, "such and such is true" and they you repeat it as factual.

NYGuy

John, you may not understand, but repeating unsubstantiated claims against the Bush family in Florida by Holocaust victims is just playing into the hands of anti-Semitic groups.

The Democratic Holocaust victims in Florida, who appeared on TV during the last Presidential election came across as political hacks and gave ammunition to those who questioned the credibility of the Holocaust. They were embarrassing and quickly retreated into the shadows.

Now you tell us that:

“ The president of the Florida Holocaust Museum said Saturday that George W. Bush's grandfather derived a portion of his personal fortune through his affiliation with a Nazi-controlled bank,”

In this statement we see an example of scapegoating which was practiced on the German Jews, and which they now appear to feel comfortable in using this tactic on the Bush family, and in the process. turn the Holocaust into a political action committee. And what documents did the President use to come to this conclusion: Evidently he has no proof since we learn:

"Although he, (Loftus), said he had a file of paperwork linking the bank and Prescott Bush to Nazi money, Loftus did not provide that documentation Saturday."

Seems everyone has documents hidden away but don't want to show their evidence.

Loftus's claims are similar to those of Buchanan who also claims that he has new documentation. But when it come time to put they present HNN with several phony, altered documents with text that fits their conclusion. And historians accept and publishes them as being meaningful.

John, you are playing a dangerous game with your claims, which you are unable to prove. This type of propaganda will only backfire on the Jewish population and give ammunition to its enemies, while mocking the true horror of the Holocaust. Since the President of the Florida Holocaust Museum made this statement, I would guess that it was approved by the world leaders in the Holocaust movement.

Hmm. Seems some have forgotten the tactics of the Nazis and now believe such tactics are a legitimate political strategy to use today.


Bill Maher - 11/20/2003



Corporations/businessmen are primarily interested in profit. Dah. That this could lead to business relationships with Nazi Germany is hardly surprising. If such businessmen were immoral bastards, however, they had plenty of company. Consider, for example, the New Statesman defending Stalinist Russia in 1936: "A social revolution . . . must be judged primarily by the permanent achievement of its economic aims . . . there may be regrettable aspects." Just one more quote to give you all a feel for this drivel. Here is Max Lerner in July 1941: The Soviet regime is deeply rooted in the "humanist and life-affirming doctrines of mass progress and human worth." Take time to puke. Paul Goodman, thirty years later, wrote Soviet evil was simply the result of "a centralized program which happened to be inept and so forth."

A student of mine concluded a paper on Darkness At Noon with the following: "Koestler must have smiled and nodded to himself as he finished Darkness At Noon. Men like Rubashov don't stop. He was ready for another crusade in behalf of a new God. He could function on the left or the right. It is always the same: 'A new and righteous law is coming.' Whose purity. What ends?" Businessmen made money off Nazi Germany. Let them burn in hell. But those quoted above were deeper folks. Burning is to good for them.


John Wilmerding - 11/20/2003

... of course, there was also some limited reporting on this matter in the 1940s ...

-- John Wilmerding

"... it is important to understand these historical connections for what they tell us about politics today. The World War II experience points out how easy it was then -- and remains today -- to hide money in multinational funds."

"Loftus' speech left many in tears."

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/bushnaziheraldtribunenewscoast.cfm.htm

Author Links Bush Family to Nazis
© 2000 Sarasota Herald Tribune

November 11, 2000 -- The president of the Florida Holocaust Museum said Saturday that George W. Bush's grandfather derived a portion of his personal fortune through his affiliation with a Nazi-controlled bank.

John Loftus, a former prosecutor in the Justice Department's Nazi War Crimes Unit, said his research found that Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, was a principal in the Union Banking Corporation in Manhattan in the late 1930s and the 1940s.

Leading Nazi industrialists secretly owned the bank at that time, Loftus said, and were moving money into it through a second bank in Holland even after the United States declared war on Germany. The bank was liquidated in 1951, Loftus said, and Bush's grandfather and great-grandfather received $1.5 million from the bank as part of that dissolution.

"That's where the Bush family fortune came from: It came from the Third Reich," Loftus said.

Loftus made his remarks during a speech as part of the Sarasota Reading Festival. The author of 'Unholy Trinity: The Vatican, The Nazis and the Swiss Banks,' Loftus documented the Swiss bank accounts that harbored funds confiscated from Holocaust victims, and the participation of Italian priests in smuggling Nazi war criminals to safe haven in Canada, Central and South America and the United States after the war.

Although he said he had a file of paperwork linking the bank and Prescott Bush to Nazi money, Loftus did not provide that documentation Saturday.

Loftus pointed out that the Bush family would not be the only American political dynasty to have ties to the "wrong side of World War II." The Rockefellers had financial connections to Nazi Germany, he said.

Loftus also reminded his audience that John F. Kennedy's father, an avowed isolationist and former ambassador to Great Britain, profited during the 1930s and '40s from Nazi stocks that he owned.

"No one today blames the Democrats because Jack Kennedy's father bought Nazi stocks," Loftus said. Still, he said, it is important to understand these historical connections for what they tell us about politics today. The World War II experience points out how easy it was then -- and remains today -- to hide money in multinational funds.

That money flows into American politics today, he said, from "a series of multinational corporations behaving like pirates. They don't care about ideology; they care about money."

Loftus' speech left many in tears.

"I am absolutely shocked," said Nancy Krauss of Punta Gorda. "I wish this would have come out before the election. My husband voted for Bush. I don't think he would have voted for him if he would have known."


John Mendolusky - 11/20/2003


If the information concerning the Kennedys, the Dulleses, the Harrimans had been widely knownat the time it certainly would have had some affect on JFK's political ambitions, Dulles becoming Sec'y of State and Harriman becoming governor. There were a number of Corporations that dealt with Nazi Germany - Ford and DuPont as just two examples. Very few were charged and fewer convicted.

I have nothing but contempt for the Bush Clan, but I would agree that it is hypocritical to focus just on the Bush family without going after some much bigger corporate "fish"
which made millions in deals with Nazi Germany and through third party corporations under Nazi German control in South America and elsewhere



Herodotus - 11/20/2003

I love how you just make all of the ordinary American people out to be passive unwilling participants who are so mindlessly controlled by the elites. Take what you said about Africa: if we're just letting Africa be ruled by tyrants who the government has coddled up to, then why aren't ordinary Americans with money who wish to change things going over there and carrying out their own good works? Why isn't there a vocal demonstration by concerned groups in the U.S.? Why isn't there continued ongoing pressure on the administration RIGHT NOW to get in there and help the people of LIBERIA? Where is that interest? Congress seems to care more than the average person about Africa---they're the ones voting our money to help out the people being starved by Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe...you know, the guy who claims that Bush and the Europeans are out to get him?


Herodotus - 11/20/2003

Why haven't these guys investigated the Dawes Plan? That and the Young Plan were pretty dastardly themselves, too...all that Yankee capital going in to help Germany round about the same time...


Wesley Smart - 11/20/2003

While it appears that you and I share some views on things, I must call you on perpetuating the term "Osama been Forgotten."

Sadly it is the ignorant sheeple who have "forgotten" that there are thousands of soldiers, including members of the National Guard, who have gone to Afghanistan and remain there still in peril and in constant hunt for bin Laden, Al Qaeda and Taliban. That fight goes on, but because the Western media has gone home, the ignorant think that we're done. Sadly, they're the ones who should be ashamed for having 'forgotten' what hard work is being done to keep them safe.


Wesley Smart - 11/20/2003

What inanity. You think all members of the Bush administration are war criminals. Norman Maneta is a member of the Bush administration (as secretary of transportation). Before this position, he served President Clinton as Secretary of Commerce.

Norman Maneta's actions on September 11 in demanding all aircraft be grounded immediately, not over a period of hours, might have been primarily responsible for stopping other attacks. How are his actions in the two years that have followed so heinous as to be those of a "war criminal"?

Your absolutist comments are embarassing you. Like person "Ralph Luker" you have no idea what you're talking about.


Wesley Smart - 11/20/2003

What if anything in Professor Moser's post leads us to assume anything about where he dwells or where he recreates? Moon's comments deserved just such a critical questioning, the sort that any of us who are teachers would challenge a student with.

What an asinine, ad hominem attack. It's a shame that you can't restrain yourself or do your part to keep what is a rapidly declining website afloat.


Cram - 11/20/2003

NYGuy,
With all due respect sir, I really don’t think you have any idea what you are talking about.

You say that "In the 1930's there were many German Jews who served under the Third Reich." Is that right? Odd how this could be given the fact that the Nazis entire bureaucratic structure was based on "pure Aryans" and excluded Jews totally.

You go on to say that "there were jewish judges, lawyers, doctors, laborers, businessmen, etc. Actually there were period where the number of jews immigrating to Germany exceed those who left German."

Is that some kind of a joke? Are you at all aware of the Nuremberg laws of 1935 (only 2 years after Hitler came to power) which excluded German Jews from Reich citizenship and prohibited them from marrying or having sexual relations with persons of "German or related blood," as well a numerous other laws designed to disenfranchised Jews and deprived them of most political rights.

Are you not aware that Jews began leaving Germany almost immediately, with many being forcefully deported? Those who had no where to go (due to restrictive quotas) stayed behind and mostly perished during the Holocaust (assuming that you believe such an event happened).

You may say what you like about Jews during the Weimar Republic, when they enjoyed relative prosperity, but to suggest such enjoyment extended into the Nazi era is, to be generous, a bizarre interpretation.

I am not quite sure of what to make of your "interpretation" of history, but I must confess that your post seriously calls your credibility into question.


C.R.W. - 11/20/2003

"The obvious analogy of the current US administration's world domination strategies are so close to those of Hitler"

Can I believe my eyes? Did anyone else read this?

I guess it just escaped my attention that managing a baseball team or holding shares in an oil company didn't benefit the manufacturers of human incineration ovens or poison gas. I also never realized that the governments we wanted to install in Afghanistan and Iraq were collaborative supporters of fascism.

I used to think the right was crazy to talk all the time about how Americans were losing their understanding of "morality," but after talking to Iraqi expatriates whose relatives no longer have to worry about winding up at the hands of a professionally-employed rapist on the government payroll or worse, winding up in a mass grave, and then hearing this poster, I think they could be on to something.

John Buchanan can publish whatever he wants, that's fine, but visiting the sins onto the great-grandson as a way to make one's subjective worldview even more politically palatable is terrible.
Also, having an economic foreign policy "strategy" is no more Hitlerian than the fact that George W. Bush occasionally wears boots. Yep, that's it - it's about the boots. Hitler wore cowboy boots too, come to think of it.


jim - 11/20/2003

while bush's grandfather was dealing with the nazis my dad was busy getting his leg blown off in italy.

while bush jr was awol from his cushy elite guard unit, i was enjoying my first overseas trip to vietnam. i was 17 years old, almost 20 before i got back to the world.

nazi, fascist, corporatist, whatever. the way you spell what they are is c-h-i-c-k-e-n-s-h-i-t.


NYGuy - 11/20/2003

This is in response to John’s post. To avoid confusion I will use NYG for my current response, but since my questions on his post are important I have let the designation of my questions questions as NYGuy.


John:

Harriman 'owned' the shares on paper only, remember he was a stockbroker -- the real owner of the shares, who bankrolled and funded UBC almost totally, were one or more unnamed members of the Rockefeller Family, probably John D. Rockefeller himself, the Standard Oil mogul and family patriarch, who died in 1937 ... after his death, of course, the shares would have been bequeathed to his children, so at the time of the 'trading with the enemy' bust, several Rockefellers -- his heirs -- may have been involved.

The upshot of this information is that Rockefellers bankrolled UBC, who in turn provided financing to August (and then his son and heir Fritz) Thyssen. Fritz then turned around and, in 1924, began giving large amounts of money to Hitler and the German Nazis. Fritz also enrolled in the Nazi party himself a few years after he began bankrolling them, and bought them their Munuch headquarters, the former mansion of the Jewish Faber family (famous for manufacturing pencils and art supplies).

NYG:

As will be shown below, UBC was a clearinghouse operations and not a financial institution.

In Your reply you used the following format:

NYGuy: "If Bush owned any shares it was very small compared to Harriman so he was only an employee -- not the final say in the direction of the company."

John
True, his share and his father's share were peanuts compared to the Rockefeller/Harriman stake. But bear in mind that the two shares sold for $1,500,000 when the corporation was liquidated in 1951 upon Fritz Thyssen's death.

NYG,

If Rockefeller owned the shares and Harriman was only holding them in street name, then Harriman and Bush had no ownership claim in UBC and your thesis that he traded with the enemy falls away. You can’t have it both ways. Meanwhile, the true owners of this company, either Harriman or Rockefeller would have had a payout of $75 million. In terms of 2003 dollars it would be worth $533.6 million dollars. Just shows what a big player player Harriman was during Hitler’s reign, and raises questions about his relationshiip with President Roosevelt.

John

And whether you are a shareholder of a commercial corporation means nothing at all regarding whether you are an employee or not -- you can be a shareholder and not an employee, or vice versa. Prescott Bush was both a shareholder and an employee, though, and was Chief Executive Officer of the firm, with the title 'Managing Director', which is a common title for CEOs.

So he called the shots on a day-to-day basis, but you can bet that Rockefellers made the policies and transmitted their instructions to Bush through Roland 'Bunny' Harriman, their broker.

NYG,

First of all the term CEO, Chief Executive Officer is a recent term and I don’t believe it was used during Bush’s time. But, since you say that Rockefeller owned the shares and Harriman held them in street name, Bush and Harriman did not have equity in UBC. As such they can't be held responsible for the true financial profiteering policy's of the true owners.

You are correct that the so-called CEO does not make policy and only has control over the day-to-day operations of the firm. Thus Bush’s only involvement was to hire and fire people, oversee that the operations are run efficiently, make budgets and distribute the profits to the owners of the firm, etc. Since he has no policy making authority he cannot be blamed for the decisions of the true owners, who according to you was the Harriman's or Rockefellers. So once again your research exonerates Bush from any illegal activities.


NYGuy: "So Harriman was the mastermind of any intrique you conjure up and that is why people look at his friend Roosevelt, who was getting intelligence on Harriman's transaction from undercover men all over the world."

John,

Nonsense. We investigators have not conjured up any intrigue ... the original conspirators did. And the Harrimans were actually merely doing the bidding of the Rockefellers, their major clients, and probably investing money on their own on the side, in such deals as arms shipments, purchases of gold, etc.

NYG,

John you are mixing apples with oranges. UBS was a clearinghouse. The definition of a clearinghouse is:

Clearing corporations

Organizations that are affiliated with exchanges and are used to complete securities and commodity transactions by taking care of validation, delivery, and settlement.

First thing to notice is that UBS did not own any of the transactions, so they had no vested investment in the transaction. This is still the same today.

Second thing is that commodities, (gold is a traded commodity) also go through a clearinghouse. The decision for the buyer was to use it as an investment, as you suggest, or take delivery and use it in his business. Thyssen took delivery for his business. As far as I know arms not a commodity and are not traded. To deal in arms would involve other type of business transactions not related to Harriman and Wall Street.

Your argument that it was an investment decision by Thyssen does not make sense. If Thyssen thought Hitler might loss the war he would want to have his gold in the US so he would have the financial resources to change sides. Thus, your argument that Thyssen’s investment decision was to not repeat his WW1 investment experience does not make sense; otherwise he would leave his investment in the US. His taking the gold delivery was probably for use in his business ventures, which is a more plausible explanation.


John,

But it is true that financiers got intelligence from all over the world in those days any way they could. My own grandfather Pelham Clinton Wilmerding had a seat on the New York Stock Exchange in those days, and he was a short wave radio enthusiast ... this is how he got his inside information from abroad ... obviously there was no internet then. Wilmerding relatives of mine are still in the stock brokering game in Princeton and Boston.

NYG,

I was talking about President Roosevelt. He was constantly receiving intelligence about the Nazis from all over the world and would have to be aware of any profiteering that Harriman was engaging in with the Nazis. Can we conclude that if he knew about these apparently illegal transactions he turned a blind eye to them because it was his friend Harriman that was profiteering from his support of Hitler? And Harriman’s huge profits were financing Roosevelt’s campaign. If so Roosevelt was a traitor to the American people. And if it were true that he precipitated the war with Japan rather than negotiation for peace so Harriman could benefit financially, then it would involve another example of treason. Definitely an investigation of the Roosevelt administration is in order.

NYGuy: "Despite such knowledge he allowed Harriman to make huge profits by dealing with Hitler."

John

Well ... Bush allowed the investors to make the profits. Remember, he drew a SALARY as CEO ... X number of thousand dollars a year as pay -- we, the investigative team, are getting the information about what his salary was as we 'speak' here. Maybe he got some nice bonuses when he cut profitable deals for them too.

NYG

John you say you are an MBA, but when you make ridiculous statements like the above, it doesn’t deserve a response. We are talking about the owners who made the big bucks and made the decisions. Focusing on the little people is an example of the cover-up that is going on.

NYGuy: "If you say Bush was involved, then you have to conclude that every American who worked for UBC was conspiring with the enemy and were betraying their country."

John,

This was a small front company, not a big bank that had lots of peoples' savings and made loans to folks walking in off the street. Wall Street sets up new banks all the time. The modern equivalent is the offshore banks in such places as the Netherland Antilles, Barbados, etc., where most capitalists today 'launder' their money. They probably had no more than half a dozen employees, and the only one legally responsible for the corporate actions would have been the stockholders, including Bush.

NYG,

Buchanan says that UBC was a clearinghouse and were not authorized to engage in banking activities. Meanwhile you suggest that a 2% investment by Bush was worth 1.5 million, which would indicate that Harriman’s share was worth $75 million. Suggesting that a $75 million equity investment was generating little revenue and less profit is ridiculous. Such an investment would have to generate revenues in excess of $100 million to be viable and in the 1930's would involve a large staff. Remember we did not have computers in the 1930 and typing pools were necessary to get the work done, which involved a large staff.

But, you consider that a $100 million in the 1930’s, during a depression was a small enterprise. You should check out the average size of companies during that period that were well below revenues of $100 million.

NYGuy: "I thought UBC was a wholly owned subsidiary of a Netherland company according to the work of Buchanan."

John,

Well, there is some confusion on that count, but no, the Union Banking Corporation was legally owned by its *shareholders*, and was basically a front for Rockefeller money so that Rockefellers would not have too many people knowing that they were investing in German industry. It was also a sort of 'insurance policy' in that it permitted the movement of capital via equity instruments (bank notes and certificates) -- and also some gold, it seems -- among the three countries. In this way, the capitalists involved may have hoped to insured their investments against the contingency that one or the other of the countries involved might lose another war. Thyssen had lost millions in World War I ... there is no evidence that I know of as to how much money in that war had been invested in Germany by US or UK capitalists.

NYG

According to Professor Parmet, based upon Buchanan’s discoveries, “Much of this is confirmed by the new documentation. The UBC was not a “bank” at all but “in reality a clearing house” for many assets…”

Again how did a clearinghouse, which is a service organization, engage in securities and banking activities? It was against the law.


NYGuy: "Were there any other American companies dealing with Germany before 1941? Did any other companies get taken over under the Alien Act? How many of the thousand companies that were taken over were prosecuted for dealing with the enemy or accused of treason?"

John,

I don't have the answers to these questions -- I am basically the networker and communicator for the investigative team ... more financial stories will emerge in the coming months.

I don't fully understand the question. But these US citizens mentioned were busted for "trading with the enemy." And many others were as well. Most times, though, when the USA goes to war with another country, they seize whatever enemy financial assets might be within reach (i.e. in US banks).


NYG

John, the answer is that those who don’t understand are misleaded by the terms the "Alien Act" and "trading with the enemy." The law refers to enemy countries that had assets in the US, not to the individuals employed by the US subsidiaries, which you evidently agree with. So your statement: “But these US citizens mentioned were busted for "trading with the enemy" is not only wrong, it is misleading and suggests you have a preconceived outcome and are trying to create improper imagers that support your conclusion. I hope that was not your intent. You obviously know no criminal charges were brought against individuals.

When we went to war with German we also seized the assets of German manufacturing companies in this country, not just banks as you suggest. Hundreds of firms were seized. General Aniline and Film, (GAF) was one of the more famous names. Many of the employees of these firms fought to defeat Nazism. Therefore your comments that suggest those who worked for these firms were traitors, is an insult to them, many of whom gave there life to defeat Hitler.

As for trading with Germany during the 1930’s just about every country carried on trade with Hitler. The Dutch, Belgium’s, French, Scandinavians, English, Italy, Spain, Monaco, Russia and the list go on. And since Germany had a strong international banking system they did business with just about every country in the world.

John

He’s is a first-rate prize-winning journalist, and John Buchanan has made very few mistakes ... everyone involved with this investigation has been learning as we go along what a huge story it is. It is almost the hidden story of our country's very existence.

NYG,

You have been blinded in following this illusionist. No respectable media outlet would touch the stuff he presented. We can see examples of his research on HNN and his so called document evidence is not what it appears to be. These documents, at least the ones that I was able to download, have been altered with text that supports certain, unproved conclusions. This is the evidence that this award-winning journalist has presented to HNN, and which HNN has seen fit to publish. I don’t see how anyone can call themselves a scholar if they rely on what I call altered, doctored and phony documents.

I am happy to read your research which shows that Bush really did nothing wrong, but if any wrongdoing was going on it was between his boss, Harriman, and possibly the President of the US. I am happy you are able to get to the bottom of this situation. But in conclusion, my own opinion is that Buchanan and others are on a witch-hunt and that Bush, Harriman and Roosevelt were loyal Americans whose reputations are now being demeaned.

PS: Buchanan’s documents say that UBS was wholly owned by the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, N.V of Rotterdam, The Netherlands. So your analysis is not only seriously flawed but it is inaccurate and further proves that Bush did not work with the Nazis but with a Dutch clearinghouse. And all your comments about being a Nazis owned money-laundering operation is an insult to a large group of Americans who were employed by German subsidiaries in this country, but who aggressively resisted the Nazis, and in some cases gave their lives. This is a terrible witch-hunt and a sad commentary on HNN’s standards.




Richard Dyke - 11/20/2003

And while we're at it, could we get 100 people at CERJ to find where Osama Bin-Laden's money is so that we can both impoverish him and also sort out the next group we are going to criticize for consorting with the Devil by "immoral investing"? (I'm being sarcastic, of course.)


Richard Dyke - 11/20/2003

Mike, I understand your frustration and you have the right to your opinion, but I would also point out that many of the people criticizing Mr. Bush now would have criticized him if he had done nothing and we ended up with another big hole in the ground and thousands of dead people. Osama Bin-Forgotten is willing to do whatever it takes, including killing his own followers like he did at the Twin Towers, and we have to be ready to do whatever it takes to stop him, within reasonable limits. While I sympathize with anyone and everyone who has suffered loss since 9/11, including especially our soldiers, stern realities often mean stern solutions. I fear you are watching too much on TV about Iraq, which is entertainment that dramatizes rather than depicts reality. We have lost 340 or so soldiers in Iraq, out of a total force of about 130,000 or so. It is a big price, but not nearly as much as it could cost us if we do nothing. Politics is the game of goring your opposition. It is very easy to criticize Bush or anyone, but most critics just don't have real and workable solutions to the problems they address. Doing nothing would only embolden Al Queda AND OTHER GROUPS to attack the "effete Americans." Sometimes an iron fist is called for.


Richard Dyke - 11/19/2003

You guys are funny! You make me laugh! What this thread needs is a little greasing with common sense and some historical reality. To wit:

1. Bush is not a fascist, unless you define the term. As I understand it, there is no universal definition for fascist. So you are all defining "fascist" to suit your purposes. So that makes you all a lot of "bloviators," as Harding defined the term.

2. The United States was not always at war with Nazi Germany. We even proclaimed our official neutrality and did not enter the war until attacked by an ally of Germany, in 1941. Why is it so hard to believe that businessmen who had invested in Germany became more or less entwined with their choice and found, or would have found, it difficult to exculpate themselves from this problem once Germany was no longer acceptable to the United States. It's very hard to "cut and run" when you have lots of assets!

3. If any of you ever gave a cent to a charity that went bad or bought products made with "child slave labor" (remember Kathy on "Kathy and Regis"?) or inadvertently supported anything that went awry, you are as guilty or not guilty as the Bush family. You are judging them by that kind of nebulous standard.

4. Hitler did not become a full-grown monster until 1942. No one can ever be entirely sure that another will become homicidal, as Hitler became, systematically, toward the Jews (and Gypsies, homosexuals, and assorted other groupings he did not like). It seems to me that much of the argument here would have required the Bush family to be able to predict the future, and once their investments were tied down and American-German politics went sour, they were at least partially stuck, PRACTICALLY SPEAKING. See Item No. 2 above again.

5. I find the comments on Bush policy in Iraq off base, and missing the real practical points. Saddam, as I have written here many times, DID have weapons of mass destruction (WMDs). For crying out loud, the British bombed his nuclear reactor (he executed a British citizen just for taking pictures of it--why? Go figure.) Saddam also used WMDs on the Kurds in northern Iraq in the 1980s (did you see the videos of men, women and babies dead in the village streets?) and on Iran in the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s. The UN inspectors thought he had them and was being evasive. Bush relied on this kind of evidence and on CIA reports, which turned out to be inaccurate. When you are the president, you have to use your best judgment. What if Bush had decided, O.K., I don't have the absolute evidence I need, so I should do nothing?! With 3,000 dead Americans already on 9/11 and Al Queda thumbing their nose at us? You could not afford to be wrong or do nothing! What's the alternative? Do SOMETHING. Remember, historians and reporters often "look back" at events, already knowing the outcomes. That makes decisions much easier. Bush did not know--he had to err on the side of political survival (yes!) and practical reality. And the practical reality is Bush thought Iraq still had WMDs and might be sheltering radical groups--the "blow you up" kind. Moreover, and almost never considered by any of you, is that Saddam was posturing to unite resistance against the United States. To woo the Palestinians, he offered families of suicide bombers $25,000 per bombing/killing of Israel CIVILIANS! A regional leader openly offering to pay for murders! Ergo, HE HAD TO GO! The administration was probably guilty of some hyperbole and some exaggeration of fact, BECAUSE the decision had been made that Saddam had to go. After a political decision is made, you marshal your justifications in a manner to best suit your decision and go for it. That is what Bush did. He could not afford to have gun-happy regional leaders promoting violence, mayhem, and unrest in light of the serious problem of terrorism. Reagan did the same thing to Moammar Khadafi of Libya, and he shut up, too!

5. The left AND the right need to change their strategies We have too many knee-jerk opinions on what Bush did or failed to do in Iraq. The establishment of democracy or something approaching democracy (where everyone can participate by voting and agree not to shoot their opponents) is a long way off in Iraq. Sometimes I laugh out loud as TV pundits make their daily "instant analyses" of the Iraqi situation, as if each negative incident should have an impact on policy. The TV news serves as entertainment, but is not a good gauge by which to monitor progress. Progress toward democracy/civility can not be measured on a daily basis. The first real progress report in Iraq is months, perhaps years away. Democracy/civility is not learned overnight.

That's the way it looks from here. How about them apples?



NYGuy - 11/19/2003

Greg,

I agree with you. This is not about the Bush family but involves the top elected official in our government who apparently turned a blind eye to help his friend.

I agree with you that an investigation of Harriman and Roosevelt should be demanded to get to the bottom of these profiteering allegations which were evidently made on the blood of our soldiers.


Marianne - 11/19/2003

John,

Admittedly, most of us are most comfortable among "our own", and many of us, thanks to the media and the culture we live in can find ourselves feeling kinship with the privileged instead of the poor, imagining the rich as unlikely to threaten us with physical harm.

But then I think about Mr. Durst in Texas acquitted even after admitting dismembering his neighbor.

And my fears extend to indirect aggressions that the rich and/or powerful can commit antiseptically---economic and military policy, for example.

Like Woody Guthrie said:

"Some are gonna rob you with a six gun.
Some will do it with a fountain pen."


Greg Koos - 11/19/2003

This is a much larger issue than NY Guys post would indicate. Partisianship of this type sheds no light.


NYGuy - 11/19/2003

Jerry,

Always nice to correspond with you. But I was absolutely "shocked" at your interpretaion of my comments.



JW:

Are you arguing that the Democrats started the war with Iraq so that the Bushes and Cheneys could earn more profits?

Maybe what has changed is that it is now the Republicans' turn to start wars for fun and profit. :)

NYGuy

Now that I have calmed down and reread your commnents I think you have a point. Reminds me of the old Jefferson sitcom:

"We are going to get a piece of the pie."

Always appreciate your keeping me on track. ;)

Cheers


NYGuy - 11/19/2003

CRAM,

"Let me try and understand your "simple concept." Germans supported Hitler. There were many Germans who were Jewish, and therfore, the Jews supported Hitler? I find that the logic to be rather absurd. Hitler rose to power on a platform of anti-Semitism (that means he hated Jews). I am certainly unfamiliar with any Jewish German who supported him, epsecially after the Nuremberg laws."

NYGuy

As you can see from this thesis it goes back to 1919. In the 1930's there were many German Jews who served under the Third Reich. There were jewish judges, lawyers, doctors, laborers, businessmen, etc. Actually there were period where the number of jews immigrating to Germany exceed those who left German.

As I said, many jews insisted that they were true Germans under the Third Reich.

As I said most people are not taught about the rise of Hitler and therefore are susceptible to the illusions created by men such as Buchanan.

You might note that he provided HNN with doctored documents, which HNN published without comment. Certainly such suspect scholarship should be part of your trying to understand the fallacy of Buchanan's claims.


Crazy Bigot - 11/19/2003

Yes, you forgot this one, Barbara.

Remember? The poor women, handcuffed to stoves, gang raped and giving birth to little brats even as they were forced (yes, forced) to stir the stew.

It was horrible, horrible beyond words. How the human soul endures such terror is not known, but several women survived.


Barbara Cornett - 11/19/2003

There have been suggestions made that the US government needs a 'Space Security Administration' because China, India and other countries are seriously planning space technology and they have the brains and means to accomplish their goals. The US must get space weapons technology and get it first. War, conquest and struggles for power will never end as long as humans remain in the universe. The wars will always be for the spoils that go to the Neopolens, Alexanders and Bushes while the masses are indoctrinated with 'Patriotism' and do all of the fighting and dying on behalf of Nation.

This is a site of historians and I think you must be playing games with us when you post articles about the Bush family and their connections to the Nazis. Historians of all people should be able to put all of this into some perspective.

What about the fact that Stalin killed more people then Hitler and yet FDR referred to him as 'Uncle Joe'? What about the history of the US and what we have done through out our history in nations around the world, not in the interests of democracy and freedom for the people but on behalf of American economic and business interests?

The discussion of the issue of the Bush family and their money making connections cannot be had outside of the context of US history and the fact that the US has always done what was necessary to obtain and maintain economic supremacy of the richest top layer of American society.

In discussing the Bush family and how much money they made in partnership with Nazis a historian would have to compare that figure with how much US wealth has been generated as a result of our partnership with the former Shah of Iran for instance. Or as a result of our partnership with leaders in Africa who oppress their own people and enslave them to mine diamonds, an enormous wealth that belongs to the Africans but which is plundered by a US elite unmindful of the suffering of the Africans as the Bushes were of the suffering of Jews, Gypsies and others in Europe who were Hitler's victims.

The Iraqi holocaust is in keeping with this US history of plunder and it is merely coincidental in that a Bush is persiding over this wealth seeking war for ExxonMobil and Shell using the descendents of the warriors who fought the Nazis in WW2.

America for all its pride in being a nation where anyone can rise to be POTUS, such as Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter, is much like Europe in that we have an elite who remain at the top, such as George Bush, even tho they are as dumb and inept as the inbred royals of Europe.


Jerry West - 11/19/2003

-
NYGuy wrote:

If you want to be fair this is an indictman of Roosevelt and his friend Harriman and adds suppor to the theory that Roosevelt provoked the war with Japan so his friend could earn more profits.

Seems nothing has changed with the democrats today.

JW:

Are you arguing that the Democrats started the war with Iraq so that the Bushes and Cheneys could earn more profits?

Maybe what has changed is that it is now the Republicans' turn to start wars for fun and profit. :)


Jerry West - 11/19/2003

-
NYGuy wrote:

If you want to be fair this is an indictman of Roosevelt and his friend Harriman and adds suppor to the theory that Roosevelt provoked the war with Japan so his friend could earn more profits.

Seems nothing has changed with the democrats today.

JW:

Are you arguing that the Democrats started the war with Iraq so that the Bushes and Cheneys could earn more profits?

Maybe what has changed is that it is now the Republicans' turn to start wars for fun and profit. :)


mike moon - 11/19/2003

I'm not going to retract any of my statements. But, I will admit, that my post was more of a ranting of frustration, regarding rich people, than what the article was about.So, on that matter, I'm behind John Buchanan 100%, and In my opinion, every member of the Bush administration is a war criminal, and belongs behind bars, starting with Ashcroft, rather than Bush. Not saying that Ashcroft has much to do with Iraq, But since sept 11th, he's been a greater threat to Americans than Osama Bin-Forgotten.


John Wilmerding - 11/19/2003

You asked:

NYGuy: "How can there be two majority holders in UBC if Harriman owned 3,991 shares out of 4,000?"

Harriman 'owned' the shares on paper only, remember he was a stockbroker -- the real owner of the shares, who bankrolled and funded UBC almost totally, were one or more unnamed members of the Rockefeller Family, probably John D. Rockefeller himself, the Standard Oil mogul and family patriarch, who died in 1937 ... after his death, of course, the shares would have been bequeathed to his children, so at the time of the 'trading with the enemy' bust, several Rockefellers -- his heirs -- may have been involved.

The upshot of this information is that Rockefellers bankrolled UBC, who in turn provided financing to August (and then his son and heir Fritz) Thyssen. Fritz then turned around and, in 1924, began giving large amounts of money to Hitler and the German Nazis. Fritz also enrolled in the Nazi party himself a few years after he began bankrolling them, and bought them their Munuch headquarters, the former mansion of the Jewish Faber family (famous for manufacturing pencils and art supplies).

You further said:

NYGuy: "If Bush owned any shares it was very small compared to Harriman so he was only an employee -- not the final say in the direction of the company."

True, his share and his father's share were peanuts compared to the Rockefeller/Harriman stake. But bear in mind that the two shares sold for $1,500,000 when the corporation was liquidated in 1951 upon Fritz Thyssen's death.

And whether you are a shareholder of a commercial corporation means nothing at all regarding whether you are an employee or not -- you can be a shareholder and not an employee, or vice versa. Prescott Bush was both a shareholder and an employee, though, and was Chief Executive Officer of the firm, with the title 'Managing Director', which is a common title for CEOs.
So he called the shots on a day to day basis, but you can bet that Rockefellers made the policies and transmitted their instructions to Bush through Roland 'Bunny' Harriman, their broker.

NYGuy: "So Harriman was the mastermind of any intrique you conjure up and that is why people look at his friend Roosevelt, who was getting intelligence on Harriman's transaction from undercover men all over the world."

Nonsense. We investigators have not conjured up any intrigue ... the original conspirators did. And the Harrimans were actually merely doing the bidding of the Rockefellers, their major clients, and probably investing money on their own on the side, in such deals as arms shipments, purchases of gold, etc.

But it is true that financiers got intelligence from all over the world in those days any way they could. My own grandfather Pelham Clinton Wilmerding had a seat on the New York Stock Exchange in those days, and he was a short wave radio enthusiast ... this is how he got his inside information from abroad ... obviously there was no internet then. Wilmerding relatives of mine are still in the stock brokering game in Princeton and Boston.

NYGuy: "Despite such knowledge he allowed Harriman to make huge profits by dealing with Hitler."

Well ... Bush allowed the investors to make the profits. Remember, he drew a SALARY as CEO ... X number of thousand dollars a year as pay -- we, the investigative team, are getting the information about what his salary was as we 'speak' here. Maybe he got some nice bonuses when he cut profitable deals for them too.

NYGuy: "If you say Bush was involved, then you have to conclude that every American who worked for UBC was conspiring with the enemy and were betraying their country."

This was a small front company, not a big bank that had lots of peoples' savings and made loans to folks walking in off the street. Wall Street sets up new banks all the time. The modern equivalent is the offshore banks in such places as the Netherland Antilles, Barbados, etc., where most capitalists today 'launder' their money. They probably had no more than half a dozen employees, and the only one legally responsible for the corporate actions would have been the stockholders, including Bush.

NYGuy: "I thought UBC was a wholly owned subsidiary of a Netherland company according to the work of Buchanan."

Well, there is some confusion on that count, but no, the Union Banking Corporation was legally owned by its *shareholders*, and was basically a front for Rockefeller money so that Rockefellers would not have too many people knowing that they were investing in German industry. It was also a sort of 'insurance policy' in that it permitted the movement of capital via equity instruments (bank notes and certificates) -- and also some gold, it seems -- among the three countries. In this way, the capitalists involved may have hoped to insured their investments against the contingency that one or the other of the countries involved might lose another war. Thyssen had lost millions in World War I ... there is no evidence that I know of as to how much money in that war had been invested in Germany by US or UK capitalists.

NYGuy: "Your assumptions about the size of ThyssenKrupp's assets in 2001 has nothing to do with the claim that Harriman, (or as you say Bush), was the mastermind at BBH and UBC who was dealing with (the Nazis)."

Not sure there was any "mastermind" involved, but high-level banking shenanigans like these are sometimes pretty clever. It seems that Prescott was learning a lot from George Herbert Walker, his father-in-law, the St. Louis financier and former heavyweight champion boxer who got him the job in the first place. But Presott's dad Samuel was an industrialist and war profiteer as well -- not a banker though, it seems.

NYGuy: "Were there any other American companies dealing with Germany before 1941? Did any other companies get taken over under the Alien Act? How many of the thousand companies that were taken over were prosecuted for dealing with the enemy or accused of treason?"

I don't have the answers to these questions -- I am basically the networker and communicator for the investigative team ... more financial stories will emerge in the coming months.

NYGuy: "Is it possible that the act only referred to the assets of the foreign countries who were our enemy and not to Americans who worked in the U. S. for those subsidies?"

I don't fully understand the question. But these US citizens mentioned were busted for "trading with the enemy." And many others were as well. Most times, though, when the USA goes to war with another country, they seize whatever enemy financial assets might be within reach (i.e. in US banks).

NYGuy: "I am not sure you know what you are talking about but would welcome an explanation. As you say this is all very confusing and is subject to easy misinterpretion as Buchanan has done."

NYGuy: He's a first-rate prize-winning journalist, and John Buchanan has made very few mistakes ... everyone involved with this investigation has been learning as we go along what a huge story it is. It is almost the hidden story of our country's very existence.

As for my qualifications, I earned the degree of Master of Business Administration (MBA) at Binghamton in 1981 -- that is a two-year graduate degree, and the teaching methods used at Binghamton's School of Business are the same (Harvard Case Study Method) as those completed by the current false-president when he earned his own MBA degree.

"By the way what products does a "Clearing house" produce or sell?"

In this case, the term was essentially meant to indicate what is popularly known as money-laundering.


NYGuy - 11/19/2003

Brillant,

What is it that Buchanan said from an historical point of view that created this state of ecstacy. After all HNN says this is a history site not a propaganda outlet for passions.

Perhaps you can give reasons for your anger.

You may not have know this but no one in the legitimate media would publish the non-event of Buchanan's "discoveries."

If you want to be fair this is an indictman of Roosevelt and his friend Harriman and adds suppor to the theory that Roosevelt provoked the war with Japan so his friend could earn more profits.

Seems nothing has changed with the democrats today.


Dorothy Goulding Ph.D. - 11/18/2003

I applaud John Buchanan's courage and wonder that this is not general knowledge to the American public. That it is not tells me much about power relations in the US. Everything appears to be reduced to economics, diminishing the importance of the social. The obvious analogy of the current US administration's world domination strategies are so close to those of Hitler - giving those of us in the rest of the world much to be concerned about. More power to John Buchanan and those of courage like him


NYGuy - 11/18/2003

Gus,

The answer is clear. Harriman, was Roosevelts friend. According to Buchanan Harriman and BBH in which he owned 96% of the partnership was profiteering from his collusion with Hitler. All the Democrats were getting rich. Roosevelt was President and had global intelligence. He did nothing and some say he precipitated the war with Japan.

What would you do. You sound like a moralist. They did what they had to so to make a buck. Business is busiiness.

Does that surprise you. As we see with Soros the Democrats are truly the party of the rich even today.

Tell me the story about those in poverty again.


Gus Moner - 11/18/2003

I found little new here as the article rehashes what already in the public domain. As the author says, the implications for descendants are almost irrelevant.

Economic entanglements, especially regarding oil and chemical firms, banking and even manufacturing corporations like IBM in the wars of the past century do not get much attention as do other elements of the period's history. There is a sordid story here.

Little, for example has been done to openly debate the Allied powers' level of knowledge of the camps, many of which were associated to German manufacturing concerns. Little is written about the Allied powers’ decision not to help Jews and others in concentration camps as an actual allied strategic decision in dealing (or not) with the camps. Why did they do absolutely nothing?
0
From what I have read, the topic gets light treatment from the allied players in their personal accounts of the war, not to mention the Soviets, who stood by for almost a month at the gates of Warsaw and let the Nazis raze the city and eliminate the London-based Polish underground, which had risen in revolt to help the Soviets take the city. This, of course, left their Polish communist comrades no opposition when the Soviets took the country.

It is as if on the one hand the victims were insignificant element in allied war planning at the time, and that the importance of the issue was not relevant to the allies (or historiographers it seems) until after the camps were liberated, on the other hand. Yet, enough evidence about the camps reached the allies that they were fully knowledgeable of the camps’ locations, their activities the appalling conditions and even the extermination policies. When the war ended, they acted as if the camps had suddenly appeared out of the blue.

What were the leader’s pronouncements on this vast horror, what entered into their deliberations to do absolutely not one thing to directly aid victims? How is this to be interpreted?


Cram - 11/18/2003


NYGuy,
Let me try and understand your "simple concept." Germans supported Hitler. There were many Germans who were Jewish, and therfore, the Jews supported Hitler? I find that the logic to be rather absurd. Hitler rose to power on a platform of anti-Semitism (that means he hated Jews). I am certainly unfamiliar with any Jewish German who supported him, epsecially after the Nuremberg laws.

As for the rest of your post, I don't really know where you got the idea that anyone is suggesting that Germany was an isolated country. So was South Africa in its prime. The point is simply that doing business with the Nazis, having full knowledge of what they were doing to the Jews (who, according to you, supported Hitler anyway) was morally wrong, and by WWII, legally wrong.


NYGuy - 11/18/2003

John:

"Loftus' contribution to CERJ email discussions being held elsewhere right now (see below) refers to the 3,991 out of 4,000 shares held in proxy by Roland 'Bunny' Harriman in the Union Banking Corporation (UBC) -- of which Prescott Bush was Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer. If Loftus is correct, the huge majority Rockefeller share ownership in UBC was thus presumably brokered by Brown Brothers Harriman for the Rockefeller investors."


John,

How can there be two majority holders in UBC if Harriman owned 3,991 shares out of 4,000. If Bush owned any shares it was very small compared to Harriman so he was only an employee not the final say in the direction of the company. So Harriman was the mastermind of any intrique you conjure up and that is why people look at his friend Roosevelt, who was getting intelligence on Harriman's transaction from undercover men all over the world. Despite such knowledge he allowed Harriman to make huge profits by dealing with Hitler. If you say Bush was involved then you have to conclude that every American who worked for UBC was conspiring with the enemy and were betraying their country.

I thought UBC was a wholly owned subsidiary of a Netherland company according to the work of Buchanan.

Your assumptions about the size of ThyssenKrupp's assets in 2001 has nothing to do with the claim that Harriman, (or as you say Bush), was the mastermind at BBH and UBC who was dealing with the Hitler.

Were there any other American companies dealing with Germany before 1941? Did any other companies get taken over under the Alien Act? How many of the thousand companies that were taken over were prosecuted for dealing with the enemy or accused of treason? Is it possible that the act only referred to the assets of the foreign countries who were our enemy and not to Americans who worked in the U. S. for those subsidies?

I am not sure you know what you are talking about but would welcome an explination. As you say this is all very confusing and is subject to easy misinterpretion as Buchanan has done.

By the way what products does a "Clearing house" produce or sell?


John Wilmerding - 11/18/2003

It was Rockefeller money, not Harriman money, according to John Loftus, Director of the Florida Holocaust Museum and author of 'The Secret War Against the Jews.'

Loftus' contribution to CERJ email discussions being held elsewhere right now (see below) refers to the 3,991 out of 4,000 shares held in proxy by Roland 'Bunny' Harriman in the Union Banking Corporation (UBC) -- of which Prescott Bush was Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer. If Loftus is correct, the huge majority Rockefeller share ownership in UBC was thus presumably brokered by Brown Brothers Harriman for the Rockefeller investors.

By the way, you can see web sites for Brown Brothers Harriman and the Thyssen industrial empire even today at:

http://www.BBH.com

http://www.ThyssenKrupp.com

These are two of the largest and richest financial and industrial firms in the world today.

ThyssenKrupp's total assets as of September 30, 2001 were valued by the firm at 34,649,000,000 Euros (with annual revenues in the neighborhood of 700,000,000 Euros per year, and that's during a slow period). Thus, with allowances for differences in the valuation of currencies, etc., the aggregate capital that 'Bunny' Harriman was holding in the form of UBC stock (equities) for the Rockefellers, which sold in 1951 for roughly $3 Billion, might -- if the percentage of ownership is/were the same -- today be presumed to be worth roughly $15 Billion.

That means that if two-bit Nazi profiteer Prescott Bush had converted his two measly shares of UBC into Thyssen/Krupp holdings in 1951 (along with the Rockefellers), his little two-share Nazi 'nest egg' would have grown from $1.5 million to roughly $7.5 million. These are *very* rough estimates, of course. The Bushes have become far richer, it seems, by investing their Nazi nest egg in politics in the USA.

And these estimates do not count monies that Prescott Bush received in SALARY from Union Banking Corporation -- as CEO of an international banking entity, he can be presumed to have been 'making out like a bandit' for roughly twenty years, from the early twenties to the early forties. Not to mention all the little side deals, political favors, professional courtesies, etc., that may have resulted from him being in managerial control of the huge Rockefeller stake in German industry.

It seems to me that while Prescott does deserve close examination for his role in these shady dealings, the real 'bandits' are the Rockefellers ... robber baron financing once again emerged unscathed, this time from the world's greatest act of genocide and a war of aggression that claimed an estimated 50 million lives -- and more to the point, wherein the USA's financial elites were playing both sides of the fence ... for humongous profits!

I think the inferences and lessons for today are obvious to even the most dim-witted person who takes a look at the situation. It is more than just "trading with the enemy", it is the height of immorality to remain vested in the industrial economies -- particularly the military production -- of two or more nations THAT ARE AT WAR WITH ONE ANOTHER. Talk about conflict of interest!

-- John Wilmerding, MBA

On Tuesday, November 18, 2003, John Loftus wrote:

You are still missing it: the shares represented the Rockefellers' equity ownership in Thyssen, which were moved through various fronts like UBC, and then emerged in 1972 as 38% ownership of the Thyssen-Krupp empire. You don't have to move gold or banks or even cash, just move the equity papers that control them. That's what the Dutch post-war digging effort in the August Thyssen bank in East Berlin was all about.


NYGuy - 11/18/2003

My error, I was refering to F. H. Thomas not Stephens. One gets confused in old age.


NYGuy - 11/18/2003

Cram,

If you don't understand that simple concept you don't understand the 1930's. Even German Jews insisted they were Germans during Hitler's time.

You see very few people are being taught about Hitler's rise to power and therefore are susceptible to illusionists such as Buchanan. Has he shown anything new to prove the assertion about Harriman and BBH? Answer: No. Do you think Germany was an isolated country with no interaction with others during this period? From his comments we know that Buchanan does not understand the period.

Suggest you drop a note to F. H. Stephens for an outline of the period and ask him for more information on the econonomic and business climate of Germany during this decade.


Cram - 11/18/2003

"the entire world did support and enable Hitler, even the Jews."

Uhhhhhhh, come again?


John Moser - 11/18/2003

Responding to Ralph Luker, I associate neither with slum dwellers nor slum owners. One encounters few of either in small-town Ohio.

Responding to "Marianne," I agree that socioeconomic status is no predictor of psychosis. We are all humans, and thus all prone to evil. If I generally feel safer among people of wealth and status than I do among those who have neither, it is simply because the former have far more to lose than the latter for engaging in antisocial behavior.


Marianne - 11/18/2003

Not all psychopaths commit acts of violence (and some don't need to do so--they can assign that task to others).

Socio-economic status also does not serve as a reliable predictor of who is or isn't psychopathic.

Speaking for myself, I don't feel as safe in the world (slums, country clubs or wherever) since the Bush administration invaded and has our troops occupying Iraq as I did before that very expensive act of war.


dan - 11/18/2003

Yes.

And it is just as relevant.

Historical curiosity, but nothing more.

Dan


NYGuy - 11/18/2003

Ed,

As Prof. Parmet has suggested there is no evidence that Bush did anything wrong. And the documents presented by Buchanan really add nothing new to show any improper action by U. S. Citizens or Bush in particular.

Sorry Ed, your artificial construct of party affiliations does not carry the day. Harriman was the headman at BBH, he profited the most, he had the most to loss and he was the mastermind behind any conspiracy theory people want to conjure up. In addition, his best friend, Roosevelt, was President. As such Roosevelt received top intelligence from around the world and was well aware of what his friend was doing, but refused to act and protect the American people.

I view Buchanan as an illusionist who creates images that are not what they seem. You will note most of those who jump on the band wagon don’t know what they are talking about, but are just followers, expressing their passion not reason.

HNN published Buchanan’s new discoveries and they do nothing to implicate Bush. If you think they do please point out what he has found to make you think there is a connection. The answer is you can’t and that is why we have to go through our little wordsmith dance.

But, then again it does remind me of the Democrats defense of Clinton:

“Everyone does it.” Hmm. On second thought you might have a point, the entire world did support and enable Hitler, even the Jews.

Then what is your point?.


Ralph E. Luker - 11/18/2003

One has to assume that Professor Moser prefers to dwell among the slum-owners than the slum-dwellers. While you're at the country club, John, you might want to ask yourself who the real thugs are.


edboswell - 11/18/2003

This story transcends party affiliation. That is central to
it's import. BBH assigned people to the two parties. Averill handled the Democrats and the Roland was a republican. Roosevelt
was going to file industrial treason charges against Wall Street,
but he died first. As for Jewish bankers, the Warburgs invested
heavily, and as a result, viewed the german govt. as investment
friendly. The lesson is that money/capitalism/banks/financial
houses are out for money. PERIOD. Trying to focus on Democrats
is not the way to see the whole picture anymore than focusing solely on Prescott Bush is.


NYGuy - 11/18/2003

It is about time for historians to unearth the conspiracy between Roosevelt, Harriman and the democrats to support Hitler for profit. It is obvious that as President Roosevelt was aware of what profiteering was going on by his friend and he did nothing. It add further proof to the conclusion that Roosevelt precipated the war with Japan so Harriman and his crew could increase his profits.

And of course it time to review the efforts of Jewish Wall Street firms to enable Hitler.

Good luck in your advanture.

PS: Hitler was wounded in the WWI. If you can show that Bush visited him in the hospital in 1919 and they both conspired to rule the world you will get a Noble prize in History.


John Moser - 11/18/2003

If it were really true that "the closer you get to the top, the more likely you are to encounter a psychopath," wouldn't that mean that one would be more likely to be murdered, raped, or robbed in a country club than in an inner-city slum? I invite the author of the last post to spend some time in each and see where he feels safer.


John Wilmerding - 11/18/2003

CERJ is coordinating a 100-person effort to accomplish further research on this complicated topic. If you are interested in joining us, email me at (eliminate spaces):

wilmerding @ earthlink 'dot' net

Here is an example of our planning and evaluation documents on the topic, featuring comments received yesterday by Edward Boswell of 'the team', introduced by myself.

John Wilmerding, MBA
Coalition for Equity-Restorative Justice (CERJ)
_ _ _

Note to John Buchanan & Distinguished Company:

The scale of this financial error in the Bush/Nazi story (see below) is such that Parmet needs to be contacted right away. I brought this scale issue to your attention before --


"... according to Buchanan, Bush and Harriman later received $1.5 million in compensation."

John, this error means that the scandal has thus far been publicly grossly underestimated ... in other words, the monetary value of these shenanigans was about 1,500 times anything you have published thus far which has reached print.

The point I have made to you before is that a million and a half is a drop in the bucket, even in 1942 or 1951 terms ... but that the shares held by Bunny Harriman for WHOMEVER sold for about $3,000,000,000 in 1951 ... that is NO drop in the bucket, and it explains why Bush and the Harrimans were not prosecuted, and why Bush became head of the War Fund and went around shaking down the rich for war charities through 1945!

Ed Boswell is right (see below) ... to my knowledge, the earliest Harriman presence in Berlin thus far uncovered is 1922 ...

And the 3,991 shares in UBC held by Bunny Harriman were worth $750,000 each in 1951 dollars, for a total of nearly $3 BILLION ... don't know what they were worth in 1942, as none changed hands. The par value per share of $100 is meaningless ... just an arbitrary value. The reason that Bush cleared $1,500,000 is that there were two shares sold on his behalf ... his and Walker's.

A calculation in terms of the value of 1951 dollars vs that of 1942 dollars could be made. It might yield, say, the estimate that the shares in 1942 were worth, say a billion AT THAT TIME. But the estimated 1942 value is necessarily arbitrary ... a war was on, and no shares changed hands.

The most interesting variable in the current accounts is Loftus' strong assertion that this huge chunk of change belonged to the Rockefellers, not the Thyssens ... that makes Prescott Bush the front man for a huge backing of the German industrialists by rich folks in the USA ... note also the premise that Joseph Kennedy was an investor ... with Hitler and his thugs essentially hired to protect their profits and probably to bust unions.

Loftus needs to be buttonholed on his evidence that it was Rockefeller money, and we have to find out how the movement of capital and goods at the behest of UBC was handled, and the paper trails, if any. For this reason, the paperwork of the original 1942 Federal investigation would be of great interest. Also, I have been wondering if there is anything at the Securities & Exchange Commission.

Perhaps there are some records also with Remington, who supposedly sold guns to the Nazis -- the UBC could have been used to buy them. Or with the Thompson company that made submachine guns -- reportedly the early brownshirts were outfitted with them. This would underscore also the 'merchants of death' angle of the story ... war profiteering, in particular playing both sides of the game.

Can we find out how much Bunny got at the liquidation sale of UBC stock in 1951, and who he paid it out to? That might be the source of Loftus' information as well.

John Wilmerding, MBA

P.S.: The information culled below is from several posts I received today from Ed Boswell, who is working hard on this story.
_ _ _


On Monday, November 17, 2003, Edward Boswell wrote:

Dear John,

Kindly note that according to what I've read, the office of Harriman and Co. was set up in Berlin in 1922. John Buchanan is quoted (in the Parmet analysis) as saying Walker and Harriman went to Paris in 1919 to set up a German branch. Why would they go to Paris to set up an office in Berlin?

Also, Buchanan is quoted as saying that Walker, Bush and the Harrimans received 1.5 million when the assets of UBC were liquidated by the US Government. That is incorrect to my knowledge, as the 1.5 million was what Bush and Walker received, exclusive of anything received or not received by the Harrimans.

As you move this story forward, it should probably be divided into areas that can be taken up by experts.

1. Financial

2. Personal accounts of Holocaust survivors (see #7)

3. Congressional investigations and reports(Nye/Truman/Patents)

4. Cross referencing dependable sources, exclusive of anyone published by Larouche, who should be surgically removed from this research sources: Loftus,George Seldes,Anthony Sutton, Charles Higham,William Dodd,Harold Ickes, George H.W.Bush, Christopher Simpson

5. Remington Small Arms questions (serial # of any Munich pistols still in any collections of WWI surplus vintage checked against factory records ( a big business for colt, as they charge a few hundred dollars to give the weapon a "provenance", meaning Remington most likely records

6. German research

7. Silesian research (Giesche primarily)

8. The Nuremberg trials, where Flick, a Thyssen business associate, was tried and convicted. His testimony, as well as that of Eric Helfferich, who said he paid Aushwitz SS guards out of a Standard Oil fund, may be of interest.

William Cuno, who was working for Wall Street, has been given the most credit for the runaway inflation. He printed up money carte blanche during the French occupation of the Ruhr, which is when Thyssen consolidated his power, and attracted the attention of Wall Street, as the "Steel Boss" of the Ruhr.

Seeing that Chancellor Cuno's acts help eradicate the debts of the industrialists in many ways,and ruined the common man, they have been credited with being the crucial ingredient in Hitler's appeal.

I suggest tying this in with the opinions of German political experts in order to dissect the policies of Wilhelm Cuno, as he was also involved with Hamburg-Amerika.

Also, sending off letters to history departments at universities, asking if anyone is interested in this subject for a doctoral thesis might be good, as this story is one for legitimate research as opposed to sensationalist headlines. The story as laid out in the Gazette is relatively accurate, but not exactly accurate. It is not much to correct this fault, and PLEASE have all future articles edited with deadly accuracy, as even mistake will be magnified 1000 times.



Mr. Parmet has astutely pointed out that Brown Brothers Harriman had investments all over the world, and cited Harriman's investments in Russia, which I believe was used as an example of an investment that did not fit the description of an investment in Nazi Germany. According to John Loftus, the Harriman investments in Russia consisted of moving in on the Czarist era cartels, including magnesium,which was needed for the German Steel Trust. Thus they are connected, even though they do not appear to be.



In regards to the Remington revolvers seen in the possession of brown shirts in Munich, they have never been verified as coming from anyone. I've contacted John Buchanan in the past suggesting that this potential link is worth investigating, if and when there's a legitimate budget for it.

As I own an heirloom COLT .45, I know that Colt has the records, by serial #, of every gun they sold, and to what wholesaler. I would have to think that the revolvers were surplus WWI revolvers, and that there are some of them in the possession of gun collectors in Munich to this day.

An ad asking for serial numbers of WW I era Remington Small Arms revolvers might attract some collectors, as they need all the "provenance" they can get for their collections. As you do not need the firearm itself, simply the serial number, it is relatively easy to at least check with Remington in this regard.

As there is most likely an intentionally obscured trail leading from Samuel Pryor and Samuel Bush to Munich, one would be very lucky indeed to find a trail from a wholesaler to Munich. Manifests for shipping could be looked at, most likely German Lloyd or Hamburg-Amerika.

Like I said, it's a link that is NUCLEAR in it's implications, but a 1 out of a 10,000 shot at best, as it was cloaked quite well.

A quick email to Remington, or Remington's history dept. will clarify whether or not Remington has the same amount of records that Colt has. P.S. Gun collectors are charged from $150 to $400 for the paperwork on their exact weapons, according to Serial #.

I had the good fortune to speak with the gent who wrote a definitive book on Colt.45, and could ask furthur questions of him at the appropriate time.

Samuel Pryor, mentioned in "Merchants of Death", interacted with Samuel Bush during WWI. Samuel Pyror is listed as an original Director of UBC at the time of it's forming.

Samuel Bush is listed as a founder of NAM, the National Association of Manufacturers, which George Seldes vilified as the #1 Union busting outfit in America. They got popped for bribing Congressmen, and backed off from that and specialized in bribing and coercing the press to print anti-union accounts of the labor news in America instead.

Respectfully,

Ed Boswell


mike moon - 11/18/2003

Our society glamorizes success, and climbing ladders. Now, how many times have you heard the business world discribed as "dog eat dog"? This is because successfully navigating these ladders often involves back-stabbing, stepping on toes, lying, and even stealing. Doing such requires one to shift into and remain in a state of supressed emotion, and conscience. Getting to the top does not happen overnight, but rather may take decades to achieve. Now imagine how much back-stabbing and lying you have to do, to get to the top of society itself. One whom has become emotionally detached, and has no conscience is not likely to see the wrong in slavery. Now, I ask you...would it be to far off course to suggest that, the closer you get to the top, the more likely you are to encounter a psychopath?


NYGuy - 11/18/2003

greg,

Certainly true of the Roosevelts, Harriman's and now Soros. Money can buy a lot of things, perhaps even an election for the party of the average working guy and his family.

Dean, Kerry, Edwards, Kennedy, Soros and other democrats. Yes indeed I see your point:

"This should not be viewed as the sins of the fathers issue, but as a cautionary tale on how the elites are willing to extend the permissable."


Democrats new slogan: I will spend whatever it takes, the the $15 million is only a start.

I bet this now is your hero. But, please tell me again about the poor people in poverty.


Cram - 11/18/2003

"But in this country everybody pays for the sins of the past, how about the tax $$ awarded to the Japanese sent to camps during WWII."

That is a foolish analogy to Bush’s grandfather being a Nazi. With the Japanese, the American government collectively paid Japanese-Americans reparations for their imprisonment. It would have been a much better analogy to suggest that the grandson of an internment camp guard personally pay the grandson of a Japanese prisoner.


Marianne - 11/17/2003

Greg,

You wrote:

This should not be viewed as the sins of the fathers issue, but as a cautionary tale on how the elites are willing to extend the permissable.

That's one powerful point.


sms - 11/17/2003

Shouldn't we also remember the fortune which FDR's grandfather, Warren Delano, made, lost, and made again in the opium trade in China. Does that indict FDR as a drug trader?


NYGuy - 11/17/2003

Bob,

If you understood the story you would understand that "if Bush is guilt then Harriman, Roosevelt and the democrat sold out."

A simple equation for those who understand. Let the rest vent their venom, the facts are still the facts. Read Buchanan again.

Cheeers


David - 11/17/2003


Bush is a fascist?

Hohum.....zzzzz....snore.


David - 11/17/2003


You Said: "However, by leveling a term such as "fasciest" to the Bush team, all you do is de-value the meaning of the word."

I'M PROUD OF YOU CRAM. I NEVER THOUGHT I COULD AGREE WITH YOU ON ANYTHING AND THEN YOU GO AND POST THIS BEAUTY!!!!


NYGuy - 11/17/2003

Brillant, and right on target. You must be a PhD candidate. Next thing is to read the article.


Bob Fleischer - 11/17/2003

As you say, "They are, in fact, neo-fascists, and our freedoms are at stake."

That should be enough reason for popular revulsion and resistance against the Bush regime.

Bush's family background shouldn't really matter; however, given Bush's inclination to authoritarian government and empire, perhaps something has been "passed down" through the generations.


NYGuy - 11/17/2003

ED,

It has already been shown that historians know nothing about business so your comment: "What is the difference between Democracy and Crony Capitalism?" is realy meaningless. What is Crony Capitalism and where does it exist? And what does it have to do with this article. As Buchanan has shown it probably started with Roosevelt who apparently sold us out to Hitler based upon the information being provided on this site.


NYGuy - 11/17/2003

Greg,

The questions was, "who are they." As you phrase it I think of Roosevelt and his cronies were the elite that profiteered during Hitler's reign. Is that who you are talking about and it says it was not Bush as Buchanan suggests.


Greg Koos - 11/17/2003

Hi NY Guy
"They" is referenced from the book which Parmet cited 'The Splendid Blond Beast: Money, Law and Genocide in the Twentieth Century' by Christopher Simpson.

Assuming Parmet knows his stuff, which I do, then the point stands, elites are willing to tolerate genocicde and war in order to maintain their priviledge


NYGuy - 11/17/2003

Meria,

This is still a history profession and cheerleading and political bias does not carry the day. As we used to say, they are coming our of the woodwork. If you read and understand the documents shown by Buchanan his documents prove nothing. He is what is called an illusionist which easily fools people like you and others on this board. What has he proved and what evidence does he show. His claims are certainly not supposed by his evidence posted by HNN. Can you back up your claims that he has proved something. He can't that is why the legitimate media pays no attention to what he has to say.

But there is a small audience of those who want to believe. Was Brown Brothers Harriman profiteering. Did Roosevelt know about it. Who covered it up. The answer is the democrats if it is true but you don't want to hear that.


NYGuy - 11/17/2003

Greg,

Missed your point. How do you go from the specific to the general conclusion. First of all the article shows that there is little evidence to support Buchan's thesis, which no responsible media outlet would touch. How do you develop your conclusions, perhaps you have read material that has not been made known so far?

Could you also answer the age old question: "Who is they?" Seems this is not about Bush.

I guess history is just a political game not to be ruined by facts?


Meria - 11/17/2003

The most important aspect of uncovering this is it proves that the Bush family has a history of war profiteering, which then makes the senseless Iraq war make more sense.
John Buchanan is a hero, and a journalist with an eye for important stories, instead of who's zooming who.
If Americans had the choice of knowing Bush history, neither Bush would have gotten one vote.


NYGuy - 11/17/2003

Edboswell,

You are generating a lot of heat and creating more confusion. What does Brown Brothers Harriman have to do with Bush being a Fascist. You are not saying that BBH was a Fascist banking firm are you?

YOu know that is not true.

Who is covering up all this collusion between US industry, Wall Street and the lawyers. Seems like everyone from Roosevelt on down was selling us out. Hmm. Probably should be investigated particularly since the older historians have given everyone of that generation a pass. We need more young mines like yours to show us what was happening during a time you were probably not even born.


Greg Koos - 11/17/2003

The key point made was found in this quote"...They committed those crimes not so much out of ideological conviction, but more often as a means of preserving their influence within Germany’s economy and society. For much of the German economic elite, their cooperation in atrocities was offered to Hitler’s government in exchange for its aid in maintaining their status."

Capital is willing to combine with fascism for what it percieves as self protection.

This should not be viewed as the sins of the fathers issue, but as a cautionary tale on how the elites are willing to extend the permissable.


edboswell - 11/17/2003

While in general agreement that bombastic smears are counter-productive to the debate over Wall Street and Hitler,
Mr. Buchanan is more correct than not when describing Bush as
a Fascist. Fascism is corporatism, anti-labor, paranoid, and
power hungry. Fascism is "with us or against us", and operates
while taking advantage of a neutered press.
Again, this story is deserving of calm, precise, and
intelligent research. Fascism is not being abused by being linked to G.W.Bush. If Bush is not an American Fascist, then who is? In my opinion, to call Bush a Nazi is out of line. To call
him a fascist is cruelly accurate, but truthful just the same.
cheers


edboswell - 11/17/2003

While in general agreement with your feelings about personal reputation versus clan history, kindly note that the Bush clan is an ongoing criminal operation. I like to make the
analogy between Mussolini's son, who was a pianist, with that of
John Gotti Jr.
It should be noted that the lesson contained within the story of Prescott Bush is that Wall Street Financiers
go where the money is, and are adept at hedging their bets. The
biggest law firms, banks, and financial houses assign their staffs to BOTH political parties. Averill Harriman was assigned
to the patrician wing of the Democratic party. Roland was a GOP
member. This is a story that should be legitimately researched
through endowments (with strings attached). It's really quite fascinating, and to use it to beat up on Bush as a senationalist
headline is tricky and dangerous. Not the story for a 3x5 index
card. The more one studies the story, the more it becomes apparent that the Wall Street players who aligned themselves with
August Thyssen's son, FRITZ, were the initial group who tapped
Hilter on the shoulder. Ford is the other one, and there's not too many links between Ford and Wall Street, as he hated bankers
in general, and jewish bankers in particular, and operated more
as an individual than as a outfit such as Brown Brothers Harriman, who were an umbrella holding companies for scores of
businesses and partnerships.
This story is a window into a masked and important
chapter in world politics, and helped trigger the second world
war. Now, it's irrelevent? No. It's MUY IMPORTANTE, and is deserving of legitimate research, as it has been intentionally
and professionally cloaked and buried.
cheers


Cram - 11/17/2003

Mr. Buchanan,
I must respectfully disagree with your previous post.
1) You suggest that "there is little if any difference between Hitler's invasion of Poland in 1939 and Bush's invasion of Iraq. Both were based on lies and done in the face of universal opposition as the result of a skillful propaganda campaign."
I agree that this was sold based on lies and was oppossed by much of the war. However, the similarities ends there. Hitler wanted to conquer Poland in order to acuire "living space" for Germans, and either murder or enslave the local populaton. Furthermore, Hitler had given his word to Poland and the world that it would not invade, as Poland was absolutely no threat to Germany, nor was it belligerent.
In the current situation, Iraq violated ineternational law, as Poland had not. While Poland was not in any way beligerant towards Germany, Iraq has been hostile to the United States since the Gulf War, and made no secret of their disdain for the UN. Finally, whether you believe Bush's goals in Iraq were for oil (which I strongly disagree) or for some other purpose, surely his plans are not to colonize Iraq with Americans, and then annhilate the local population. There have been many imperial pursuits in history that could be analogized to discredit this war, but Hitler and Nazi Germany are not the analogies to do it.

2) You then go on to say that "the Bush family profited from slave labor at Auschwitz, which will be the topic of my next article in NHG. How can anyone say that is not relevant? It is horrifying -- and indicative of what we are dealing with from the "neo-cons.""
The Bush family, and every other connection to that most aweful crime of the 20th century, should be thoroughly researched and documented for history's sake. However, why would we punish W. Bush for his grandfathers crimes?
3) Finally, you claim that "they are, in fact, neo-fascists, and our freedoms are at stake."

Beacause I find such vitrolic attacks vulgar and unaccepotable when coming from the right, I feel I must also condemn them coming from the left. President Bush and his team have done great harm to this country and instigated a war with Iraq under false pretenses. Bush is a liar, and has been a terrible President by most standards. However, by leveling a term such as "fasciest" to the Bush team, all you do is de-value the meaning of the word.


Ed Boswell - 11/17/2003

Kindly take your observations and move to the "Free Speech
Zone", which is a mile out of town on a side road!
The question of the day: for C-Minus students attending on white affirmatative actions scholarships:
What is the difference between Democracy and Crony Capitalism?


john buchanan - 11/17/2003

I am the reporter who located the documents at The National Archives and wrote the articles in The New Hampshire Gazette, which can be read online at http://www.nhgazette.com. The relevance to today, in my opinion, is that there is little if any difference between Hitler's invasion of Poland in 1939 and Bush's invasion of Iraq. Both were based on lies and done in the face of universal opposition as the result of a skillful propaganda campaign.
Further, the Bush family profited from slave labor at Auschwitz, which will be the topic of my next article in NHG. How can anyone say that is not relevant? It is horrifying -- and indicative of what we are dealing with from the "neo-cons."
They are, in fact, neo-fascists, and our freedoms are at stake.
All Americans should stand for truth and honor in the White House, as Bush promised during his campaign, and demand a full accounting from the Bush family of its treason.
Thank you.


Cram - 11/17/2003

As someone who has no love for Bush, I agree with the author that what his grandfather did has no relevance to Bush's reputation. In this country, we do not punish children with the sins of their family. Just as contemporary Germans should not be held responsible for their grandparents crimes, neither should Bush or anyone else.

History should expose these facts merely as historical reality, not for someone to use this for partisan attacks against Bush. As far as I am concerned, there is enough reason to dislike Bush for his policy without having to resort to unfair accusations committed by someone who happens to share a bloodline with him.


Alec Lloyd - 11/17/2003

Nice and balanced. It also correctly points out just how difficult it is to draw bright clear lines on "good money" and "bad," particularly in the environment of th 1930s, when so many leaders constantly assured the world that Hitlerite Germany posed no real threat to peace.


David - 11/17/2003

YOU SAID: "He makes it known "you are either with me, or against me" and now enjoys travelling happily around the world playing GOD.:

Playing "God"? Come come now, you mustn't let yourself be carried away by your emotions. It clouds your thinking. And the rest of your screed is littered with similar hyperbole and melodrama. I'll say one thing; the Left has never lacked for passion.


Colette - 11/17/2003

I had no interest in politics until Bush took to the stand. My instinct's said "big mistake" and it drove me to learn all I could about his family history and I have been living in a sense of fear ever since.

Once your eyes are open to the bigger picture, you realise that they are playing games, you are the pawns.

The entire world is run by a small group of people who decide what quality of life you will have!

It forces you to ask yourself, am I in control of my destiny? Or is it the governments, the bankers, the financiers and the lawyers who realy are in control?

Now, the world HAS to know what is realy going on around them. They have the right to know.

They stuff us with GM corps that infect the surrounding landscape, that kill the soil and create genetic mutations that are toxic and we accept the research of the people who own the product! Bush let's this happen, he won't even allow independant studies to air. He emposes slopy laws where Bayer does not have to prove anything about his products, again the bush family is dabbling in death!

He bypassess the laws quicker than any president in history, removes the protection act, so hunters can hunt rare animals. Is allowing our planet to get polluted, knowing that that is why we are dying. Why the dramatic increase in Alscheimers, Parkinson's, MS and all the rest.

He is taking the world out from under you, your food, your safety, your finances and your rights to free speech.

He makes it known "you are either with me, or against me" and now enjoys travelling happily around the world playing GOD.

Our futures, our planet and our existance is balancing on the whims of this egotistical, sick little man.

Do you want to die to suit their whims?


David - 11/17/2003

Has an expose of Joe Kennedy's money been made yet?


Herodotus - 11/16/2003

It would be useful for everyone involved to get a lawyer to explain what the financial instruments involved were, and whether anyone in the U.S. exercised actual control over the subsidiaries.


F.H. Thomas - 11/16/2003


Beautifully researched and written, thoughtful and well-reasoned in its conclusions.

More like this one, please!


kill bill - 11/16/2003

"Similar associations did not keep John Foster Dulles from becoming secretary of state or his brother Allen from heading the C.I.A."

Too bad it didn't.

Children of poor criminals generally must
pay for their legacy... the rich get a pass!

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