2 Whoppers Made by President Bush in Past State of the Union Addresses





NOTE: This article was first published January 20, 2004.

President Bush has made two serious misstatements of fact in his State of the Union addresses.

Iraq Sought Uranium in Africa (2003)

The more widely known mistake was the president's claim in 2003 that"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." As Bush subsequently acknowledged, there was no evidence that Iraq had sought or obtained uranium from Africa.

In 2002 Joseph Wilson, the last ambassador to Iraq, had been dispatched by the CIA to Africa to investigate media reports that indicated Iraq had purchased uranium from Nigeria. He found that the reports were untrue. When his investigation became known an uproar ensued and Democrats called for an independent probe of Bush's claims. In July 2003 Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) demanded to know"why, as late as the president's State of the Union address in January 2003, our policymakers were still using information which the intelligence community knew was almost certainly false." The White House was thrown further on the defensive later in the summer after columnist Robert Novak outed Wilson's wife as a CIA operative. The media speculated that someone in the White House had leaked her identity to Novak in an attempt to silence Wilson. The Justice Department subsequently opened an investigation into the source of the leak. Recently, Attorney General Ashcroft recused himself from oversight of the investigation, which he placed in the hands of the U.S. Attorney in Chicago.

Off by $700 Billion (2001)

In his 2001 State of the Union Address -- which the White House insisted was actually a budget address, though the media referred to it as a State of the Union Address -- President Bush outlined his administration's plan to ask for a $1.6 trillion tax cut over ten years. The size of the tax cut alarmed many pundits and deficit hawks. The administration argued that the government expected to run a surplus of $5.6 trillion over the coming decade and could therefore afford a sizeable tax cut. Democrats wanted to use the surplus to pay down the national debt of $3.2 trillion. But in his speech President Bush argued that $1.2 trillion dollars in debt could not be paid off early because the money was owed on long-term bonds. Hence, that money could be used to pay for the tax cuts.

Ron Suskind reveals in The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House, and the Education of Paul O'Neill, that Secretary O'Neill had pointed out to the White House in advance of the address that only $500 billion of the national debt could not be paid off early. President Bush had made a $700 billion mistake.

From The Price of Loyalty

Richard Stevenson's [New York] Times story revealed one item the President would be addressing that night in his State of the Union: over the next ten years the United States could pay down only $2 trillion of the $3.2 trillion of debt--once the $2.4 trillion of Social Security surplus was set aside. Specifically, the White House would contend that $1.2 trillion of the debt would not be able to be paid down largely because it matured after the ten-year period.

There was a clear inference: if we can't use $1.2 trillion of the surplus to do what both Democrats and Republicans have been advocating for much of the 1990s--pay down the federal debt--we might as well give it back in the form of a tax cut.

The story's key quote came from Gary Gensler, the undersecretary for domestic finance under Clinton--and the official who had so ably handled O'Neill's debriefing during the transition. Gensler, a former investment banker and head of bond trading at Goldman Sachs, said there were a variety of ways to replace the long bonds--mostly thirty-year Treasury notes--with rolling buybacks and purchase replacements. The amount that would be difficult to buy back would be a maximum of $500 billion, not $1.2 trillion.

O'Neill quickly huddled in a conference room with assistant undersecretaries."Gensler's right, isn't he?" Nods all around. None of them had been consulted. It was a mistake of nearly $700 billion."What do you mean, no one was consulted?" O'Neill moaned.

Over the next hour, the path of this gremlin was revealed. A mid-rung career analyst at OMB had worked up a paper on the so-called payback problem--extrapolating from a more general, academic footnote in the final budget submitted by Clinton upon his exit--and then passed it north to his bosses at [the Office of Management and Budget] OMB. Delighted at what seemed to be added justification for the tax cut, they passed it over to the President's speechwriting team and political staff-led by Karl Rove and Karen Hughes .... Fearful of leaks, and distrustful of the agendas of expert staffers in the various departments, they had circulated final drafts of the State of the Union to almost no one outside the West Wing....

Treasury staffers called the White House. Excerpts of the State of the Union, which included the flawed calculus, had already been disclosed to the press. It was too late.

O'Neill was incensed. How could the White political staff"decide to do things like this and not even consult with people in the government who know what's true or not? Who the hell is in charge here?" he ranted."This is complete bullshit!"

That night, Bush stood before the nation, described the state of the Union in the most important speech a president gives, in any given year, and said something that knowledgeable people in the U.S. government knew to be false.


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andy mahan - 9/19/2006

I was so proud of our president. The fact that he stuck to his policy in disregard of those twisted partisans willing to sacrifice the lives of Iraqis and American military for the sake of political gain made me proud to be an American. He is such a good principled man and it comes through when he speaks. God bless our president. I cannot remember a time when I was so moved by a state of the union address as I was for this one, usually they are pretty dry. But the introduction of the Iraqi woman who''s father was killed by Saddam and was given the right to vote last weekend as a result of the Bush doctrine and the subsequent introduction of the family of one of our fallen soldiers was poignant. And when the mother of the soldier hugged the Iraqi woman it brought tears to my eyes. THAT is what America is about, sacrificing for the sake of freedom for all.


clarence willard swinney - 3/12/2005

Most of these were through June 2003 so many can be added. C. W. Swinney is a retired business executive and former Republican, who lives in North Carolina. He voted for Nixon, Carter, Reagan twice, and then G.W.H. Bush. He says he was "apolitical" until 1991, when he " happened on Haynes Johnson Sleepwalking Through History book in a local library." He was shocked at what he learned about Reagan, and has since become enthralled with Bill Clinton and become a historian of 1980's and 1990's. He has a video library of over 100 hours of Clinton speeches, including all his state of the union addresses, has collected over 100,000 pages from print media and has purchased over 500 books on the 1980's and 1990's. He is now considered a Political Historian of 1980’s, 1990’s and Bush Administration.
He can be contacted at cwswinney@netzero.net
Mr. Swinney has been cataloguing the endless stream of lies of the George W. Bush administration, which is up near the 200 mark as of May 22, 2003.
Here is his list. Everybody might not agree about every last item, but anybody who thinks that this President is honest and/or trustworthy is smoking something illegal!
----------------------- BUSH & STAFF LIES -----------------------
Many to be added.
Each item is sourced. They can be can be attained by asking. I have them but there are so many that it would require many times this space.
I Define a Lie—Intent To Deceive—some are not-- many are. You decide
1. I passed a Patients Bill Of Rights as Governor.
2. I am a "Reformer with Results".
3. I am a "Compassionate Conservative".
4. Action Administration.
5. The claim that "Al Gore lied re: his role in creating the Internet".
6. The claim that "Al Gore lied re: his role in Love Canal".
7. The claim that "Al Gore lied re: The Love Story movie".
8. The claim that "Al Gore lied re: his role on Farm Work".
9. Open Administration.
10. I will protect the environment.
11. I will retain regulations on CO2.
12. Dad and I will be first two Environmental presidents.
13. I will increase funding for libraries. ( cut is not an increase Mr. MBA)
14. I will Leave No Child behind. (Just the funding for their programs).
15. I will be the Education President. (good-from C- to A + student)
16. I will restore Honor-Dignity-Integrity to the White House.
17. I will continue to balance the budget.
18. I will put Social Security in a Lock Box.
19. I will increase the Pell Grant Maximum Award.(cut is no increase)
20. My Tax Cuts will not create deficits even in a recession. How high the moon.
21. I will “fully” fund LIHEAP—low income energy program. ¾ is not 1.
22. I will listen to sound science and “local” officials before deciding on Yucca Mountain. I do not listen to anyone I is King.
23. I will make higher education more accessible by helping students with costs.
24. My administration will have transparency. In the dark?
25. I am the type of person who will not change his mind once he makes it up.
(check my 61 Waffles plus www.companiongate.com with 172)
26. I have been to WAR. In Alabama?
27. I will provide 20 Billion for World Trade center. 5-29-03 still waiting.
28. I gave the citizens a Tax Refund. Loan not a refund. Democrats program. I am King I can take credit if I wish.
29. Iran and North Korea have been allies against us.
30. Hear me once and hear me clear. Promises made are promises kept. Sometimes-Occasionally-Now and then-Maybe--My Waffle list takes care of this very childish remark.---------------------
31. Saddam kicked inspectors out of Iraq. (He ordered USA spies to leave but stated over and over that others could stay.). Sick or dumb. You decide.
32. I knew nothing about a possible WTC type attack. I cannot read. PDB too long for me. Interrupted my vacation.
33. We warned the FAA, Airlines and Pilots. (Pilots interviewed said they were never warned.).
34. Ashcroft: "We captured a terrorist who was planning to plant dirty bombs".
35. Presidential Air Force 1 plane was under attack.
36. "I saw the first plane hit before I went into the classroom." Well, I made it up.
37. "I will fully fund Low Income Housing Assistance. A cut is no increase.
38. "I will provide affordable prescription benefits for ”all” seniors. Key is “affordable”
39. "I will pay down a record amount of the federal debt. Call Me Mandrake the Magician. Adding more in 4 years than we had at the end of 200 years is –up/down.
40. The largest percentage increase in my budget is for education.
41. Education will be my number one priority (—after millionaires).
42. "I do not take cues from anyone. (Except Karl, Karen and Dick).
43. Finding to Congress to slaughter Afghans. Lied by omission. No mention of removal of Taliban.
44. "I will not engage in "Nation Building". Until second year.
45. "I do not need a Resolution from the UN." I love being a Dictator.
46. Palm Beach County was a Pat Buchanan stronghold. Jews love Pat like Hitler.
47. Clinton people did an estimated $200,000 damage to White House.
48. Clinton people robbed Air Force 1.
49. Middle East slaughter is Clinton fault (for working too hard for peace.)
50. North Korea restarting Nuke Program (Clinton fault).
51. We have the strongest Military in history. (He campaigned on it being so weak.).
52. "I will be strict on federal spending." (Except for millionaires in weapons manufacturing).
53. Alabama Duty—I was there on a temporary assignment and fulfilled my weekends.Three simples questions—(served in which section—did what—with whom)
54. Dan Bartlett—Bush spokesman : "He pulled his drills in Alabama". (Since he wasn’t flying he was doing odds and ends under different supervisors whose names he cannot recall, which may well explain (why they can’t remember him either).
55. "I was no longer flying F-102 jets because they were being replaced by a different fighter."
56. Aide : "He did not take a physical because his physician was in Houston and he was in Alabama." (Try again. Personal physicians cannot give the examination.).
57. "After I completed flight training in 1970 I kept flying with my unit for the next several years". 22 months do not constitute several years
58. Cheney lied on Halliburton transactions with Iraq.
59. "Immediately upon taking office I will transfer the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem". Not in first term (last term)
60. "I will Jawbone OPEC to open the wells." (Aw heck just free market at work.)
61. "I will have a humble foreign policy. " (What would he consider an arrogant one?)
62. "I will have a bipartisan administration." (most partisan since dinosaurs)
63. "Sharon is a Man of Peace." (slaughters =peace)
64. "I looked into Putin’s soul. " (Psychic again.)
65. Paul O’Neill: "I sold no Alcoa stock when I was CEO". (Try 627,547 shares).
66. "Iraq has a fleet of unmanned planes which could be targeted at the United States".
( It will take 1,000 refuelings to get here, if the duct tape holds up!)
67. "We have proof Al Queda has been involved with Iraq." (But we won't show it to anyone.).
68. Elliott Abrams is a convicted liar. (Right at home with this crowd.)
69. John Poindexter is a convicted liar. (He just cannot remember.)
70. Karl Rove lied on Salvation Army deal.
71. "I will put an end to permanent campaigning." (I will do only six days each week.)
72. "I will not use polls. (Just weekly.)
73. Senator Baucus does not like free trade. He is an isolationist and protectionist.
74. The president did not try to intervene in the GE-Honeywell deal in England.
(Well, maybe a little bit.).
75. Mitch Daniels—biggie on Clinton night deposits.
76. "We will stop attacking Clinton". ( when we die, maybe.).
77. U.S. air strikes in Iraq have been routine. (Pentagon disagrees.)
78. "Majority of my tax cuts goes to lower income". (15% to bottom 60% mr.mba)
79. "I am matching a trillion tax cut with a trillion cut in spending."
80. Harken Energy sale of sock—records show a deliberate lie.
81. Dropping top rate from 39.6% to 33% will serve as a stimulus to 9.4 million .
small business owners. (Less than 5% of businesses pay top rate now.).
84. "I will provide $100 million to preserve the Rain Forest." ( $ 87 million short. And he earned! a Business Degree form Harvard!).
85. School Choice—In state of Washington he said “I stand behind school choice”.
Next stop was Concord NC. “I want to avoid some of the so called school choice issues
such as school vouchers, for it would prompt an extended debate in congress”.
86. Iraq is updating their nuclear program for we can tell by them having aluminum pipes.Experts say you are wrong boy.
87. Cheney:: ”You never save ammunition to use before an election.” Rove and Card said Oh Yes we do.
88. He was inspired by reading the masters. (Well, Not exactly read them. We told him.).
89. "I read the EPA report.(Ari :“He did not”. When Ari contradicts you, it is trouble.).
90. Laura—“The federal records show divorce is down, weddings are up and families are coming together” (Sorry dear, you must have been looking at old Clinton records. Federal government no longer maintains such records.).
91. We did not support the Venezuelan coup.
92. Nunn-Lugar.
93. Anwar—only 2,000 acres will be disturbed.
94. Presidential records — hiding them will make them more accessible. (If you say so--Talk of twisted logic)
95. Ashcroft - We are able to respond to bio-terrorism attacks. Call 911.
96. Military — Help is on the way.
97. My daughter did not wear kahki’s to meet the Queen. (Just a Demin jacket.).
98. We have definite proof Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 9-11. I thought they were your pals from Saudi Arabia)
99. "I was never arrested.” (Police record wrong. Dad could not get it expunged fast enough).
100. We have an agreement, which will be the largest disposal of nuclear war heads in history.
( Putting 2,200 into storage is not disposing of them in other people's dictionary.).
101.I believe in being held accountable. ( Why then, when we attacked Afghan, did you say “I’m not in charge. The Pentagon is running the war”) .
103. Plants must conform to same environmental standards of regulations as in Texas.
(Voluntary "compliance" isn’t regulations.).
104. My number one priority is Osama Bin Laden- dead or alive. (for the moment).
105. You coal miners will get help from me.
106. "I got affirmative action rules in Texas. (O=Nothing.).
107. Admiral Quidly spokesman for Central Command in Afghan : “We hit our targets miles away from homes.” (Not according to eyewitnesses who saw friends homes take direct hits, Red Cross building, Vets hospital, wedding party, etc.).
108.
109. Ashcroft—550 prisoners—“It is against the law to release their names”. (Three days later assistant attorney general Chertoff said “there is no specific law barring disclosure of names”.).Who runs this Animal Farm.
110. Gonzales—Mary Francs Berry said he lied to her over seating a commissioner on her commission.
111. Mitch Daniels - Economic slow down is due to war on terror and not tax cut.
(When he made that statement very little spending was being done to fight terrorism.).
112. Justice Department—Lied on number of arrests and convictions for terrorism. (They loaded the report with garden variety crimes with no connection to terrorism).
113. Justice said man disrupting a flight was a “domestic terrorist”.
(The judge laughed at the charge and called it “ridiculous”. He said it was an obvious case of a man being very upset at his treatment by airlines.).
114. IAEA—Harpers Review—1-14-03—claimed the group had issued a report which did not exist. This boy brain scorched?.
115. We will not become the police of the world. OK! Just judge, jury and executioner.
116. Gale Norton—“Governor Davis had a hand in approving offshore drilling”.
( Governor Davis called him a “Liar”.).
117. Cheney said Tax Cut stimulated savings and investments.
118.AL Q is operating in Kashmir section of Pakistan. ( Strong denial by Pakistan so waffled away saying well we thought they were there. We had a gut feeling.).
119.We should not execute anyone who is mentally retarded. ( He executed two with IQ under 70.).
120.Cheney—In order to meet our future electrical needs we need to build one plant per week. ( A cutback.).
121. "I got the first major energy policy in history. ( Jimmy Carter earned that distinction 25 years ago.) Jimmy went bonkers over this lie.
122. The sleepovers in the Texas State House were only family. (And they gave 2.1 million to your campaign.). Is such lying necessary? Or just pathological?
123. "I have been off alcohol since I met Billy Graham. (That video all over the internet showing you stoned at a wedding reception in 1992 was magic?) .
124. Mitch Daniels: "The 2003 budget was built on very conservative and cautious assumptions."
125. OMB: "appropriations of domestic programs are, or will be, the cause of long term budget problems".
126. OMB: "deficits will drop significantly between 2002 and 2003.".
127. OMB: in it’s mid-year review it claimed that the Senate domestic budget plan would reduce the president’s defense request for the 2003 budget. (The Senate plan included the presidents full request and OMB knew it. ).
128. Padilla— Ashcroft had to reverse his claim of capturing a terrorist who was planning bio-chemical attack on us.
129. Bush claimed Al Q was planning to attack U.S. nuclear plants. (No proof yet. Just spreading fear).
130. Photo-op in Arizona during wildfires. ”We will help”. (Arizona is still waiting.) .
131. Wolfowitz: "We found a terrorist cell in Jacksonville, Florida." (When asked for proof by Jacksonville leaders, they were told it was just my gut feeling.).
132. Photo-op in Oregon at training center. “I will help”. (A week later his budget came out cutting such training programs by 45 million.).
133. Harken Energy---records show blatant lies by George W. Bush.
134. "I will veto bio-terrorism bill; it is too expensive. (Then signed it.).
135. Told state officials it was illegal to place limits on coverage of emergency services for the poor.
(Then, put out a new policy allowing HMO’s to do just that).
136. Said his application to a Prep School was not rejected. (It was. He admitted it later.). Why does he tell such flagrant lies? Pathological?
137. Said his 2001 Tax Cut was originally designed (during the height of the Clinton boom) as a stimulus. Do not need more wind in a hurricane.
138. Dan Bartlett : "“Since he was not flying there was no need for him to take physical”. He was grounded because he refused to take a physical. Quite plain on his record. Snort snort gurgle gurgle.
139. Campaign official: "There was no special deal for him to get into the National Guard.! A lie for infamy.
140. Most small business owners pay income tax at the 39.6% rate. Boy, 5% Is not most. Why such blatant lies? Pathological?
141. Al Q and Iraq are in cahoots. Tea together each afternoon.
142. Lie to democratic caucus.
143. Discovery of cannisters is proof Iraq is not cooperating with the inspectors.
144. "I am a Uniter not a Divider. Sho! Got the world united against us.
145. Ken Lay : "First met him in 1994. Very stupid lie.
146. Ken Lay supported my opponent. Yuk! You are sick to make such blatant misstatements .
147. Am Iraqi agent met with Al Q Mohamed Atta in Prague. Phantom meeting.
148. Condi Rice : "No one ever dreamed of such a thing as a plane being used as a bomb”. How many times must they tell you Condi?
149. Ari : "There will be no social security for young people”. Well! I must have been wrong. So, what is new.
150. “I visited the Space Center in Houston while Governor”. No you did not . Why does this BOY say such things?
151. The recession began before I took office. Oh No.
152.“You can’t say one thing and do another”. “My tax cut will not cause deficits even in a recession.”.
153. Colin Powell before UN: “The tape clearly establishes a connection between Osama Bin Laden and Hussein, beyond all question.” (The tape when played in it’s entirety told a very different story.)
154. Colin showed a photo which he alleged was a plant producing chemical weapons. Baloney. Old buildings. Small bakery. Thirty reporters went to the site and said “Bunk”. It was on European TV but did you see it on American TV?
155. Ari said the evidence by the UN inspectors of a missile which could travel beyond UN limitations was a breach. Iraq said it varied in distance according to payload. Russian authority said it was reported to the UN. The extra distance was minimal. It could go 120 miles which will just about make it a Serious Security Risk for America?
156. Newsday-2-23-03-Bush and Ari lied whey they said the Blue Chip Forecast showed the economy would grow at 3.3% this year if Bush tax cut is passed. Randall Moore editor of Blue Chip denied the claim. Why do these BOYS keep making such false claims? White House personnel became almost hysterical in trying to spin it.
157. “I support After-School Programs”. In 10-2-03 letter he sent to After School Alliance. Cut the funding by 40% per E.J. Dionne in Washington Post on 3-7-03. Rep. George Miller said “Not unexpected. It was a Clinton Program. There is obviously a search-and-destroy mission against anything that was Clinton”. Nice Christian group?
158. Reuters-3-7-03-The U.S. and British lied about their proof Iraq imported Uranium. The IAEA concluded it was a false charge. Psychos? .
159. 2-28-03-Speech on Homelnd Secuirty-“I proposed 3.5B for first Responders. He proposed an increase of 1B not 3.5B as he claimed He vetoed 400 Million passed by Congress for First Responders and in 2002 he actually froze money for them.
160. Colin: ”They are hiding banned arms in mobile laboratories”. Outlook India. Com 3-6-03 “Hans Blix stated” No evidence of such activities has been found. He said his inspectors had followed U.S. leads and got nothing”.
161. January 3, 2003: “My Jobs Program(for rich) will create 2.1 million jobs and the tax cut shave been front loaded to have as much effect in the first year as possible. January 8th-White House document released showed that job creation will be about 190,000 in 2003. NY Times Edmund L. Andrews 1-9-03.
162. Ameri-Corps : "Wash. Post Dana Milbank-2-27-03-“During SOUA Bush made it a central part of his “Compassionate Conservative” program and called for it to grow to 75,000 from 50,000. Instead, It is possible enrollment will be 26,000 this year. In December of 2002 Bush said it was “expanding mightily”. The funding will be 64 million short in 2003.”.
163. Salmon Fish Story-Seattle Post Intelligence 1-16-03-Bush said “the salmon runs can be restored without building dams. The man and fish can coexist. Bush is still holding up 4 million to help them coexist.
164. Paul Krugman-NY Times-2-25-03-President Vincente Fox of Mexico felt betrayed by his good buddy Bushlite. Old Bushie (promises made-promises kept) promised to give amnesty to all illegal immigrants from Mexico. Next time Vicente watch who you trust. Be sure they are solid Christians! Remember this is White House overflowing with Dignity and Integrity. Plus convicted criminals. Plus pathological liars.
165. Wash. Post 2-26-03-“I have not made up my mind on war (slaughtering ) . John Bolton, Undersecretary of State said “We are going ahead UN or no UN. It is already final? I am a leader? I am in charge? I will make the decision?.
166. Ari said “We know they have it (WMD). A list of 25 sites were quietly provided.” Hans Blix challenged Bush and Powell to put up or shut up”. The info they provided has been junk-junk-junk said UN Inspectors.
167. Ari “Bush is willing to be patient”. The very next day Bush said “time is running out”. Who is in charge? Do these boys speak to each other?.
168.”I am willing to offer them food and energy assistance if they stop their nuke-uler program.” I say what I mean. When my mind is made up it stays made up. Do we have a scorched brain here?
169. Colin tried to paste a link between Saddam and Al Queda by saying “a sinister nexus between Iraq and the Al Queda network.” He used as proof a chemical weapons training center in an area controlled by Ansar al-Islam. Reporters visited he area and found no proof.
In fact, the group hates Saddam and Al Queda.
170. 2-3-03 White House Fact Sheet-“The budget would be in double digit deficit if there had never been a tax cut in 2001. The budget returned to deficit because of War, Recession and emergencies associated with the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11”. Whoever wrote the Fact Sheet did not look at Historical tables volume of White house budget. Page 5 read: An economic slowdown began in 2001 and was exacerbated by the terrorists attack of September 11. The “deterioration” in the performance of the economy came together “with income tax relief” provided to help offset the economic slowdown and additional spending in response to the terrorist attacks produced a drop in the surplus to 127.1 billion and a return to deficits in 2002.
171. Bush said only North Korea was to blame for crisis. Colin Powell gave “great credit” to Clinton for freezing NK plutonium enrichment program in the 1994 Framework Then. Wash Post reported a senior Bush administration official suggested the nuclear crisis was the predictable result of a flawed 1994 agreement signed by Clinton with Pyongyang that “frontloaded all the benefits and left the difficult things to the end for the next president (Clinton). Honor, Dignity, and Integrity. It got lost somehow.
A great source of Bush lies is Sam Parry article of 11-4-02 in www.consortiumnews.com headed “Bush’s Life of Deception”.
172. The Education as number one priority has slipped through the cracks. The 2004 Budget of Bush eliminated 45 educational programs. A total of 1.6 Billion. Major ones are Comprehensive School Reform ( $ 235 million). Rural Education ( $ 162.5 million). Smaller Learning Communities ( $ 142.2millon). Perkins Loans ( $ 100 million). Regional Educational Laboratories( $ 67.5 million). Leveraging Educational Asst. Partnerships( $ 67 million). Preparing teachers to use technology ( $ 62.5 million). Community Service of expelled students ( $ 50 million). Parental Asst. Info. Centers ( $ 40 million). Physical Education Programs ( $ 50 million). Community Technology Centers( $ 32.5 millon). Fund for the Improvement of Education was cut by( $ 361 million). Source is Report by House Budget Committee (Democratic Caucus-John Spratt Jr.) 2-4-03: "this c- student a loose in land of learning! .
173. NY Times-3-10-03—Elizsabeth Rumiller-“Antiwar Clerics wonder if Bush hears their call”. Cardinal Pio Laghi a peace emissary sent by the Pope John Paul II to meet with Bush said “he was told he could not talk to reporters in the White House driveway where microphones are routinely set up for visitors to the Oval Office. (Ari Fleischer said it was not true. Cardinal Laghi held a press conference anyway. Will you believe emissary from Pope or Ari?).
174.Harper’s magazine-Weekly Review-3-4-03: "Bush administration officials hinted Russia might have a hard time collecting it’s Iraqi debts, if it fails to support Bush war plans. (Other Security Council members were being told they would pay a “heavy price” for refusing to support Bush. Ari said, in effect, that they were all lying).
175. Consortium News-11-4-02-In the October 11 debate Bush said the Clinton-Gore administration “took 40 million acres of land out of circulation without consulting local officials. He said: “I just cited an example of the administration just unilaterally acting without any input.” (The Forest Service conducted 600 public meetings.) (Like Father like son “I will do (or say) anything to win”. GHW Bush in 1992.).
176. Bush said during the debate “Our water in Texas is cleaner now”. The Sierra Club said “The discharge of industrial toxic pollution into surface waters in Texas increased from 23.2 million pounds in 1995 to 25.2 million pounds in 1998 the last year of available data (Bush hiding it?).
177. Bush said: “I do not need polling to tell me what to think”. NBC News 10-6-00 reported Bush spent over one million dollars on polling during his campaign. It was widely reported that during first two years in the White House over one million per year was spent on polling as much as Clinton spent over first two years.
“Who cares what you think”. He must have meant it for all Americans.
Reporter-Writer Sam Parry writes “Bush’s growing record of lies, both big and small, suggest something perhaps more troubling. His personal history of heavy drinking, drug use, carousing, disappearances from military duty, repeated business failures and political hypocrisies -- combined with his ability to avoid ever paying a significant price for his deceptions - have given him a sense of his own infallibility”.
Paul Krugman-NY Times-(on wmnf-fm-tampa 2-26-03)-The Bush administration’s level of irresponsibility and dishonesty is unprecedented”. Amen! .
.
Washington Post Editorial on Bush Tax Cut: ”Mr. Bush must know how phony his “averages” are. Anytime a salesman has to resort to such deceptive tactics, the customer ought to be wary about what is being sold”.
Dennis Hans writes: ”I review below 23 “techniques of deception” of Bush and his foreign-policy team.”.
178. Colin before UN: “My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we are giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.” (Powell presented now discredited presentations of bogus tales based on discredited defectors, tortured captives, photos and tape recordings that proved little or nothing. Wild speculation. A “fine British dossier built on plagiarized essays with 12 year old “revelations” and so on.).
179.WND Instead of providing proof Powell produced photos of Al-Taji ammunition storage facility. Powell claimed they are a ”signature item” for chemical bunkers. A picture of a truck and a shed by themselves reveal nothing about the content of the adjacent bunker. Swinney note: Reporters visited the site only a couple days later and found a small bakery and dilapidated buildings.
180. Powell used tapes of conversations. (The State Department’s transcript of the actual conversation makes it evident that Powell had embellished the quote to make it appear much more incriminating. Intent to deceive is LYING.).
181. Bush claimed the location of Samoud 2 Missiles was “the Tip of the Iceberg”. (He has produced nothing to back up such a claim. If he has information he is required to notify the inspectors under UN Resolution.) .
182 Powell stated there were labs in remote Kurdistan. (No proof.) .
183. Powell stated there were mobile labs with WMD. (No proof. Hans Blix’s inspectors followed all leads supplied by U.S. Intelligence and some inspectors called US Intelligence information “junk” and kept them on wild goose chases (found two mobile food kitchens). www.accuracy.org has several examples of deception.).
184. Bush said during his speech to UN Security Council on Sept 12 “Iraq has made several attempts to buy high-strength aluminum tubes used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." In his SOUA on Jan 28 he repeated it.
185. Bush made inference eight times to a tie between Iraq and Al Qaeda in his news conference. By citing 9/11 he tried to alchemize American anger at Al Qaeda into support for smashing Saddam. (No proof of Saddam-Al Qaeda connection.).
186. Bush said location of Samoud2 Missiles was “Tip of Iceberg”. No proof of any iceberg. If he has proof he is in violation of UN Resolution by withholding information from inspectors.
Noted Journalist Sy Hearst-“There is no real standard of integrity because the White House doesn’t have any”.
Paul Krugman-NY Times-America’s leadership has lost touch with reality. The eagerness to believe that an Iraq nuclear program does exist has led to a series of embarrassing debacles capped by the forged Niger papers. It is clear that deposing Saddam has become an obsession.”.
187. -03-13-03--AP-Niko Price-From Al-Taji, Iraq--IRAQ DRONE. Iraqi officials took journalists to the Ibn Firna State Company just north of Baghdad where the drone’s project director said Colin Powell and Bush lied. The Drone was made of Balsa wood with two small propellers attached to what looks like the engine of a weed whacker.
188. Bush II Shootout at OK Corral speech : "“Every measure was taken to avoid war”—words will live in infamy. One analyst revealed 21 lies Bush spoke in his “24 hour to leave Dodge” speech. 189. David Ensor -CNN Wash. Bureau-3-14-03-Powell referred to proof of Iraq attempting to buy uranium in his UN presentation.(Totally false. Fake documents.).
190. Wash Post-3-21-03-Glenn Kessler : "“It’s a bald face lie to claim the “coalition” is greater than the one on 1991” per Ivo H.Daalder of Brookings Institute.( The comparison is not even close.).
191. Ari said several times ”Iraq is a wealthy nation”. Los Angeles Times Warren Vieth article 4-3-03-- (The Iraq balance sheet is a Basket case. Financial shambles. Debt load. Cash flow low. Shaky currency. High unemployment. Sounds like George Bush had been in charge for past ten years!).
192.The Strait Times (Singapore) listed by Common Dreams.org on 10-28-03- Malaysian Prime Minister Mohamad said President Bush ”lied” when he said “I pulled him aside at the Bangkok Summit and rebuked him for his anti-Semitic remarks”. Now. Which would you believe?
193.Condi Rice and others said the administration never said ”imminent threat.--”May 7th 2003—Ari Fleischer said “absolutely” when he was asked “didn’t we go to war because we said WMD were a direct and imminent threat?” www.The DailyMislead.org
194.Bush claimed UN Inspectors were not allowed into Iraq before his slaughter. The UN weapons Inspectors were forced to leave when Bush began his slaughter. This lie was unbelievable. Does he know anything?
195 thru 207. I will not list the 12 lies by Condi Rice but you can get details at: aw heck I erased the site. Sorry. Will look for it.
208. Bush stated he first learned of POW abuses from videos like most Americans. Colin Powell Per Mark Matthews of Baltimore Sun on 5-12-04 quoted Colin Powell “I and other top officials kept the President fully informed in general terms about complaints made by the Red Cross and others on ill treatment of prisoners in American custody.” Bush was informed a year earlier than videos. A typical Bush spin will be to use “in general terms” like I did not know Planes would crash in north side of twin towers. No one told me North side. So, I is innocent.
209. Bicycle fall at Crawford. Spokeslady said “it was due to so much rain and ground was wet.” Ground was very dry. No rain in many days. I cannot comprehend why it is necessary to spin such irrelevant negatives. What is wrong with these people? Animal House, Crazy House, Nut House or what?
210 thru 213—Record—4 lies in one speech—Reuters from Des Moines, Iowa on 7-20-04 speech —“I want to be the Peace President” .Too late. Fire all of PNAC staff if you are serious—“I am a reluctant warrior”. Huh! “Cheney Saddam, we are taking him out”—“America and world are safer”. If so remove colored flags. “We are going to be attacked before election” Tell that to Palestinians and Israelis. To Spain . To Bali .

214. I am the War President”. “I am the Peace President”. Yuk! Sane?
215. “This is pro-small business administration”. --Tax breaks to largest: Pharmaceuticals—HMO—Richest—1325 Billion and 555 B to top 1% mostly big business owners and CEO’s—Defense Manufacturers (poor souls)
216. Columbia Journalism Review-7-21-04 Des Moines Speech—“You see, if you can’t raise enough by taxing the rich, guess who pays next. Yes, the not-rich. That’s all of us Poor fellow. Food Stamps.
217.Campaign promise-“My administration will create 5 millon new jobs by end of 2004”. Short 4 million. Lie or ineptitude.
The following is a series (#218 thru #224)of distortions(lies) during R conventoin week of 9-3-04 from Alternet,org titled “Kerry was framed”. 9-2-04.
218. Zell Miller framed the Iraq war as indistinguishable from Sept 11 attacks.
219.Zell Miller framed oppositon to presidents policies as opposition to freedom.
.220.Zell called a vote against one appropriations bill as multiple votes against individual weapons systems.
221. VP Cheney said Kerry voted to authorize force then opposed the war. Kerry did oppose method used by Bush as did most of the world citizens.
222. Cheney said Kerry voted for 87B blank check before voting against it. Kerry voted for one “version”, Bush threatened to veto one “version’. Kerry wanted to use Bush tax cuts for rich to pay for it. He did not want to give Halliburton a black check as in the version he opposed. Bush wanted to give Halliburton a blank no-bid check.
223.Cheney said Kerry vote against one version was to prevent troops from having flak jackets and protective equipment. Nonsense. He voted for protective gear. Bush sent the troops to battle without proper protection.
224.Cheney distorted Kerry “sensitive” statement on war on terrorism. Kerry entire context was about waging a strong and effective war on terrorism while being sensitive to concerns of our allies.
225.Cheney-“The world’s worst source(Iraq)of nuclear weapons proliferation is out of business.” 9-1-04 R national convention—Still pluggingWMD? This man is in a dangerous state of mind. He is scary.
226.Treasury Sec John Snow told Ohio audience: “Claims like the one that Bush will be the first president to end a term with fewer jobs than when he started is nothing more than myths”. Note he said First. He is second. Is that a Snow job? www.thecourier.com/issues/2004/oct/101204.htm#story4

226. Third debate Bush said-“We took the right action and didn’t allow contaminated medicine (flu shots from England) into our country”. Crazy or what? Responsibility for nothing- Credit for everything. English authorities closed the Chiron Plan. and Revoked it’s license on October 5th 2004. The closing surprised Tony Blair and our FDA. Our FDA visited the plant on October 15, 2004The Bush FDA inspected the plant in 2003 and early 2004 and found bacteria but said the firm was correcting the problem. Sho.
How could a sane person make such a nefarious claim during a nationally televised debate? Then, he went on campaign trail saying over and over “I stopped contaminated vaccines from coming into our country”.
What is wrong with Bush? Is he drunk? Scorched mind? Or? Unbelievable!
If this punk is a devout person just call me Pope Clarence I. The First Baptist Pope. Folks! History will report this as most deceptive Gang in history. Nixon gang looks like Angels compared to them.
This is a gang of Anti-Christ politicians.
Clarence Swinney-Political Historian-Burlington nc
Send comments to www.cwswinney@netzero.net


Vernon Clayson - 2/4/2005

Ken Melvin says that 18,000 people died from lack of health care and he asks where the rationality is. Where is rationality in that comment, even people with health care die, it's our nature, we live and then die whether we have health care or not. Tell me more, Mr. Melvin, did they die pitifully begging for help at the cold hospital door and on their death certificates did it categorize cause of death as "lack of health care?" Mr. Melvin must have meant that 18,000 people died not having some insurance plan that paid for health care but that would be people younger than Medicare age, and most of them, if not working or capable of working, had access to Medicaid. How many of the 18,000 would have died with or without an insurance plan? Mr. Melvin, was a rash and hasty comment, surely you didn't think it would go unchallenged.


JohnM Bernard Mendolusky - 2/4/2005

Bush has been a failure in every endeavor he has undertaken. Even in his lying - his ineptitude beams with vulgar garrishness. Anyone taking pride in the America that this Dismal Dunce, the Chimp in Chief now shows the world,to is contemptibly and criminally stupid and nothing more than a boorish lout.


Vernon Clayson - 2/3/2005

NYguy, you say they sound like history professors but they hardly do as most history professors would review their post and correct the spelling if necessary; few would fire off a comment entitled "Lair" when they meant Liar. Henry Ankeny started this chain and we should be thankful as he incidentally disproved that old hypotheses that a monkey could not write a Shakespearian-like sonnet given time. We should also be thankful to Carl, he proves, that like a lab rat, he can be duped to recognize objects that give him pleasure. In this instance, the mere comment of impeachment serves this purpose, it doesn't matter that it is unlikely to happen, the thought is the thrill and he will fall for the ruse time and again.


Michael Glen Wade - 2/3/2005

Re "conservative"pundits & blaming Pres. Clinton--- most of those people appear to be reactionary rather than conservative. And a steady diet of that subsidiary of the Cartoon Network, Fox News, is hardly the path to education.


John H. Lederer - 2/3/2005

Sigh.

Iraq did most likely attempt to acquire uranium from Africa.

The British Butler commission found that the claim was well supported.

The Senate Intelligence Committee found that, contray to his assertions, Joseph Wilson had reported that Iraq had sent a trade delegation to Iraq which the former Prime Minister of Iraq believed to be for the purpose of acquiring uranium.

The Butler commission found explicitly that the British conclusion did not rest on forged documents.


Vernon Clayson - 2/2/2005

Walter, I don't think the author of the statement preceding yours was looking for a vote on the two concepts. There are precedents of presidential mis-statements and errors in judgement, FDR for example, wasn't going to send our boys to fight on foreign soil,
LBJ took us into Vietnam because a boat, maybe a little larger than a rowboat, came too close to one of our huge naval ships, Jimmy Carter fiddled while several hundred of our citizens were hostages in Iran, Clinton blustered for two terms about the dangers of terrorists while taking little action against them, have you forgotten our turning tail in an ugly place, Somalia, rather than teaching the scum there a lesson, or did you kind of enjoy seeing our dead soldiers dragged through the streets? Speaking of inept, we had to borrow armored vehicles from Pakistan at the time because Clinton's inept gang wouldn't permit use of our own.


zpa lqm - 1/27/2005

Ignorance is bliss.


Walter Charles McCant - 3/21/2004

Inept!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


David Carlos Batlle - 1/26/2004


Sudan had Osama in their territory, and they offered to turn him over but Clinton refused to take him because they had "nothing to indict him on":

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/ladnsudx.htm


Caleb - 1/25/2004

For those who don't know me, the above title was sarcastic.

http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/resources/iraqintell/adminquoteshtml.htm
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16274
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/22_lies.html


Caleb - 1/25/2004

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3426703.stm


Chris - 1/25/2004

Blame Clinton! Even when he warned the incoming Bush administration about Al Queda.

Blame Clinton! Even when he had been out of office for months before 9/11/2001.

Blame Clinton! Even when the Bush Administration told the FBI to lay off Bin Laden prior to 9/11/2001.

Blame Clinton! The battle cry of those who pay NO attention to history.


NYGuy - 1/24/2004

Don't you guys ever read the newspapers. The US economy is booming, people are safe and going back to work. The major countries of the world, China, India, Pakistan, GreatBritain, Spain, Poland, etc have recognized Bush's vision of a peaceful world without terrorism in which all the peoples prosper and enjoy the freedoms of democracy.

You both sound like history professors, still living in the 20th Century, in a quaqmire and bogged down with definitions.

Wake up, go outside, (no it is too cold), stay inside but smell the coffee.

There is a great world before us thanks to Bush.

The true God is in his heaven and alls right with the world.

WOW. Think I will have another cup of coffee.


NYGuy - 1/24/2004

Finally my first mistake on HNN.


NYGuy - 1/24/2004

Don't you guys ever read the newspapers. The US economy is booming, people are safe and going back to work. The major countries of the world, China, India, Pakistan, GreatBritain, Spain, Poland, etc have recognized Bush's vision of a peaceful world without terrorism in which all the peoples prosper and enjoy the freedoms of democracy.

You both sound like history professors, still living in the 20th Century, in a quaqmire and bogged down with definitions.

Wake up, go outside, (no it is too cold), stay inside but smell the coffee.

There is a great world before us thanks to Bush.

The true God is in his heaven and alls right with the world.

WOW. Think I will have another cup of coffee.


NYGuy - 1/24/2004

You are probably right Carl. But remember no matter how bad it was Clinton was still a lawyer. And like any lawyer when they are asked "What should we do" the answer is always nothing.

Bush is a visionary and a man of action.

Thank goodness.


john horse - 1/24/2004

The false claim that Saddam was attempting to purchase uranium from Africa has an interesting history.

It was going to be used in Bush's October 7, 2002 speech but was removed after Deputy National Security Advisor Steven Hadley received a telephone call from CIA Director Tenet and 2 memos questioning the claim. According to the second memo (a copy of which was sent to Condoleeza Rice) there was "some weakness in the evidence" and that the "Africa story was one of two issues where we (the CIA) differed with the British intellegence . . ."

By December, 2002 the claim was once being asserted by the Bush administration. According to the Department of State fact sheet presented to the UN, Iraq failed to declare its "efforts to procure uranium from Niger."

Of course, the claim was in Bush's State of the Union speech on January 28, 2003.

What is interesting is that a week later (February 5) Colin Powell gives his presentation to the UN but does not make this claim. Later, when asked why, he explained that "The reason that I did not use the yellowcake in my presentation is that I didn't sense . . . that I saw enough substantiation of it that would meet the tests that we were applying."

What these events demonstrate was that well before the SOTU speech, there were strong doubts about the reliability of the claim. You would think that since Bush was laying out his case for going to war with Iraq that his staff would spend the time to check out the facts presented in the speech. My conclusion is that either the Bush administration knew about the doubts but ran the speech anyway or they are incredibly incompetent. I would almost prefer believing that Bush lied about the purchase of uranium to believing that the people in charge of our security are inept.


john horse - 1/24/2004

Herodotus,
According to the IAEA "Based on thorough analysis, the IAEA has concluded, with the concurrence of outside experts, that these documents, which formed the basis for the reports of recent uranium transaction between Iraq and Niger, are in fact not authentic. We have therefore concluded that these specific allegations are unfounded." (March 7, 2003 IAEA Director ElBaradei report to the Security Council)


Rod S - 1/24/2004

Hear Hear!


Rod S - 1/24/2004

I am so glad that Bush and Condi coined the phrase, "Revisionist History."


Caleb - 1/23/2004

1) "There is also the pesky little problem of all those Democrats in 1998 declaring Iraq's WMDs a threat and issuing threats against Iraq for non-compliance with inspections!"

That is exactly my point! Clinton was criticized by some Republicans for attacking Iraq and blamed for using it as a ploy to distract the country away from the impeachment vote. Furthermore, this situation is very different because we were already engaged in a war against Al Quada when we went into Iraq, leaving the terrorist organization to recuperate.


2) "As for the Al Qaeda-Iraq connection, we now know that one of the 1993 WTC bombing actors gained assylum in Iraq after the bombing!"

Assuming that this is true, how does that constitute a link between them, other then letting one operative in? Is there a link between the US government and Al Queada simply because we discovered numerous terrorists have entered this country, and have been living here for a while?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A19822-2003Jun21?language=printer
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2727471.stm

3) "The extent of specific collaboration on 9/11 is irrelevent to the over-all change in American foreign policy towards terrorism."

Considering the fact that we had to redirect needed resources from Afghanistan and Iraq, and the cost in terms of human lives and in international credibility, I believe it is quite relevant whether Iraq was, in any way shape or form, connected to 9/11 (which it was not).

4) "Bush never defined terrorists as only those who attacked us on 9/11. Because of Iraq's past support of terrorism (including Al Qaeda), its defiance of WMD inspections under UNSCOM, 11 years of resolutions demanding compliance, the cease fire agreement which mandated those ispections and disclosures, and the new posture of America against global terror, depose Hussein in the manner we did makes sense."

I cannot entirely disagree, however it is the timing and manor of going in that bothers me. Wouldn’t Saudi Arabia be far more appropriate given their extensive support of terrorism? How about Syria? Iran? Between the 3 of them, Iraq was the very least of a threat to us in terms of providing aid and relief to terrorism. Indeed, the only form of support we know Iraq gave to terrorist with paying Palestinians terrorist families $250,000 for murdering Israelis. Nothing more.


Todd Tharp - 1/23/2004

Caleb:

As I recall, Hussein's obstruction of UNSCOM was mentioned frequently, too. Bush went to the UN and listed the resolutions Iraq had been violating.

In fact, inspectors were kicked out shortly after the 4 day stand off over documentation of Iraq's nuclear program!

There is also the pesky little problem of all those Democrats in 1998 declaring Iraq's WMDs a threat and issuing threats against Iraq for non-compliance with inspections!

Bill Clinton, Tom Dachele, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, Madeline Albright and so on...

As for the Al Qaeda-Iraq connection, we now know that one of the 1993 WTC bombing actors gained assylum in Iraq after the bombing!

The extent of specific collaboration on 9/11 is irrelevent to the over-all change in American foreign policy towards terrorism.

Bush never defined terrorists as only those who attacked us on 9/11. Because of Iraq's past support of terrorism (including Al Qaeda), its defiance of WMD inspections under UNSCOM, 11 years of resolutions demanding compliance, the cease fire agreement which mandated those ispections and disclosures, and the new posture of America against global terror, depose Hussein in the manner we did makes sense.


Matt - 1/23/2004

Many people make very blanket statements, such as this Clinton - 9/11 statement, to reinforce thier own personal feelings (or the convictions of others that are easy to adopt and require minimal mental expenditure).

See, it takes time and effort to actually investigate conditions and make and well organized/well presented statements based on the results of earnest investigation of the facts and conditions in place at the time of question.

Hey, but why bother when it's easier to just regurgitate the words or sentiments of prominent conservative mouthpieces in an attempt to sound informed? These so called 'fair and balanced' conservative opinions get so much media exposure these days that repeating, them or following suit in spirit, gives one a good chance of appealing to some percentage of the population and hence, coming off sounding intelligent.

But truly responsible discourse on any topic requires time, energy and an interest in finding the truth regardless of personal investment or personal hopes for the the outcome. Blanket and easy statements erode our ability to exercise our freedoms and to advocate for dissent when called for.

The above comment regarding Clinton having responsibility for 9/11 deaths just deomonstrates the less factual and far too commonplace way to conduct discourse in this country. It's a great demonstration of doing things the easy way...not the responsible way.


Caleb - 1/23/2004

Todd,
1) "Bush gave several reasons to go into Iraq."

This is very true, but there were really 2 main reasons that led to the public support and those were the reasons restated in almost every speech. The first was that Iraq had WMD and was ready to use them. The second was that Iraq is the next logical step in the war on terror, with the strong implication (which almost 70% of the country believed) that Iraq was connected to 9/11. Only after those 2 reasons proved erroneous or unsubstantiated did conservatives leap to the minor rationale (humanitarian abuses, UN violations, domino of democracy throughout the region, etc.)

2) "Iraq being in material breach of UN Sec. Council resolutions was enough."

While this may have been the legal rationale, I doubt even you would have supported an American invasion simply because a country violated the UN, an organization many conservatives hold in contempt anyway. To say that the UN violations was enough is to suggest that America is the "policeman of the world," a claim Republicans (used to) fervently deny.

3) "I think it also makes sense from a long term stategic point of view - that whole region needs to see that America will not be screwed by pissant malcontents in the rest of the world."

This I don't yet know if I can disagree with. You might be right, the Iraq war may have been in our long term interests, only time will tell. Nevertheless, even if this turns out to be the case, it still will have been a gamble based on untruths. That, for me, cannot simply be ignored.

4) "My hope... is that some stability can be brought to that world and that future US policy will not prop up nasty tyrants."

On this, I think we can both agree.


Caleb - 1/23/2004

Todd,
1) "It has been conceded he was technically correct, while maintaining he knew the documents from Niger were forgeries."

I admit, it was technically correct. But to me, lying includes misleading, even it the words themselves are correct. Bush mentioning it in the most watched event of the year gave the report validity and implied Bush's agreement with it.

2) "Maybe they're wrong, but for now they don't think so and neither does Bush. So if they are in error, they are in error."

You are mistaken. According to the media "The White House concedes that information wasn't true."
CIA director Tenet, taking the fall, commented that truth on a technicality "should not have been the test for clearing a presidential address." He went on, "This did not rise to the level of certainty which should be required for presidential speeches, and the CIA should have ensured that it was removed."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/sprj.irq.wmdspeech/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/24/white.house.uranium/index.html

3) "The words stand on their own for those not blinded by ignorant, mal-informed partisan rage."

On this, I could not agree more, although I think you and I are thinking about different sides.

Other noteworthy pre-war articles:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/14/sprj.irq.documents/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/06/sprj.irq.uranium/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/12/22/sproject.irq.declaration/index.html


Caleb - 1/23/2004

1) "The difference I see is the Bush hasn't backtracked or equivocated at any point in this process! He hasn't argued that he merely misled."

Confessing to lying as Clinton did, does not make the lie any better than sticking to it as Bush has.

2) "Clinton misled and lied."

I do not believe that Clinton deserved to be impeached, but will agree that since he was, he probably should have been convicted. In any event, I am not arguing that Bush is worse than Clinton (although I think he is) because that has no bearing on this issue. The only important point for me is that Bush's claims about Iraq were not true. His claims about the intelligence expressed certainty, and his implications of 9/11 clear to almost 70% of the country. You may bash Clinton all you like, but that does little to excuse Bush.


Caleb - 1/23/2004

Steph,
I could not agree with your post more! I wish people could get past his smile and rhetoric and look at what policies he has supported and what that has done to this country. Pick an issue- healthcare, education, tax cuts, foreign relations - and you will find lots of talk and lots of smiles... but little that has reallt benefited this country in the long run.


Jeffrey Davis - 1/23/2004

A lie is an attempt to hide the truth. True statements can be lies if they are used to hide another truth. A lie is a moral act not an algebraic one.

Perjury is a purposefully false statement about a material element in a legal dispute. True statements cannot be perjury, and the accused is given every opportunity to display the truth value of his testimony.

By omitting that the CIA hadn't approved the British account, Bush's statement is an example of "suppresio veri, suggestio falsi". A lie.

Purposefully mixing the two elements -- ordinary speech and legal testimony -- is a dismal example of how ordinary people have become complicit in the misdeeds of government.


Todd Tharp - 1/23/2004

Bush gave several reasons to go into Iraq.

Iraq being in material breach of UN Sec. Council resolutions was enough.

I think it also makes sense from a long term stategic point of view - that whole region needs to see that America will not be screwed by pissant malcontents in the rest of the world.

My hope, since the insanity of Cold War hegemonic games (which permitted Husseins and Shahs) in the third world is over with the fall of the USSR, is that some stability can be brought to that world and that future US policy will not prop up nasty tyrants.

Even if America cannot facilitate a stable republic or democratic state in Iraq, we owe it to future peace in the region to try. If any group of people on this planet can do it, it is Americans.

We shall see.


Todd Tharp - 1/23/2004

Aren't you sweet?

I've shown you the British dossier, shown you the words you say are lies, putting them both side by side.

It has been conceded he was technically correct, while maintaining he knew the documents from Niger were forgeries. Yet, he never said Niger, he said "Africa" and his source was the British government. Indeed, the Brits did say "Africa", not Niger, and to this day maintain the intelligence was good.

Maybe they're wrong, but for now they don't think so and neither does Bush. So if they are in error, they are in error.

The words stand on their own for those not blinded by ignorant, mal-informed partisan rage.


Todd Tharp - 1/23/2004

Caleb:

The difference I see is the Bush hasn't backtracked or equivocated at any point in this process! He hasn't argued that he merely misled. Those are the words of partisan leftist and progressive Democrats, not Bush.

Clinton misled and lied. He was impeached and if you can be satisified with that pathetic 'trial' Trent Lott put on, that's fine with me. Moreover, let us not forget the lies under oath were obvious. As I recall his defense was 'those lies were about sex, everyone lies about sex and it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment'. This was even though other American citizens served jail time for lying about sex under oath. Nevermine the fact that Clinton lied to evade a law he enacted!


Steph - 1/23/2004

It's kinda funny that when Bush took over the country he was (metaphorically speaking) given the keys of a Mercedes Benz. What he is going to return to us is a Yugo. Things have been getting worse for me and people I work with. I guess because we are working class. I never received any tax cut. If anything I'm paying more money in insurance and utilities (the same utilities that all the enviromental regulations are being eroded away).College is too expensive and there is no good jobs anymore. We can't let the wealthy run the U.S. anymore greed WILL take over. Bush has made a big mess of our great country and it's time to stop him.


Rod S - 1/23/2004

This whole debate seems almost silly to me... As I remember the news articles at the time, the facts included the Bush administration removing the reference to British intelligence in an earlier speech. this came out when the "Who do we blame?" game was going on. I believe it was the underling of Condi Rice (forgive me for forgetting his name at the moment) who admitted that they removed that reference from an earlier speech because the CIA said the intelligence was shaky at best, but... uh oh... somehow they simply forgot about that fact when it came to the state of the union. So, they included a factually true statement - British intelligence did, in fact, report that Saddam had attempted to obtain the uranium, they just chose to ignore our own intelligence that said... no evidence exists.

This is all based on the statements of Bush administration officials. Not my opinion – their own words. So, did Bush lie??? Argue that all you want, but essentially his people said to the CIA, “We want to say that we know Saddam tried to obtain uranium….” The CIA said, “Well, no… we actually can not rely on the intelligence that suggests that.” So, the Bush administration went back and said, “OK, but can we say that British intelligence says that Saddam has tried to obtain uranium?” The CIA’s response was something like, “I guess so.”

Forget Paul O’Neill’s statements for a second. Do you really need any more evidence that the Bush administration was intent on ‘selling’ us on the need to go to war in Iraq? It’s all in their own words!

We impeach a Man because he lied about marital indiscretion, yet we praise a man about lying us into a war that has cost thousands of lives. I am not defending Clinton, but give me a break!


Carl - 1/22/2004

Try this site:

http://votetoimpeach.org


Carl - 1/22/2004

Check this out. I just pulled it off of the AP:

Al-Qaida "cannot escape the justice of America. We got thousands of troops, thousands of brave soldiers who are chasing them one by one," Bush said. "There is no hole deep enough to hide from America."

Of 55 Iraqi leaders sought by the United States, 45 have been captured or killed, Bush said, adding, "The other 10 have got to be nervous."

These two paragraphs were together! Not only is he not conceding the fact that there is no link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, he knows that if he keeps repeating this mantra over and over, people will assume that there is some connection.

And this from a respected news service. What crap!!!


Henry Ankeny - 1/22/2004

I would serouisly wonder why the Dems. haven't put some brass around there balls and start impechment on this little lying coward of a inbred moron,with all the secrecy & bold face lies between him & cheney or lets put it thie way the intire administration needs to quit lying &living off of political welfare.So Dems get it on impeach the little bastard


Henry Ankeny - 1/22/2004

I would serouisly wonder why the Dems. haven't put some brass around there balls and start impechment on this little lying coward of a inbred moron,with all the secrecy & bold face lies between him & cheney or lets put it thie way the intire administration needs to quit lying &living off of political welfare.So Dems get it on impeach the little bastard


Carl - 1/22/2004

Bush lied and over 500 have died. I have family in Iraq. I'm hoping they come back in other than a pine box (which by the way we never see because Bush has forbidden the press to show the returning dead). And why hasn't he visited any of the graves or attended any of the funerals for our innocents? (these dead average about 19 years of age)

The asshole can lay wreaths at the graves of the British dead and the graviste of of Martin Luther King but he can't seem to find time to attend one funeral for those who he is personnally responsible for dying.

He's delusional like you and all conservatives.


Carl - 1/22/2004

This is from an article on March 3, 2003 on the IAEA site (before Bush made his "planned" error.

And, US officials have warned that al-Qaida for one, is seeking to acquire a nuclear device. US officials say they have uncovered what they believe is an al-Qaida terrorist connection in West Africa including an arms smuggling network which they consider a threat to regional stability as well as American interests. But on Friday, US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld seemed to suggest the terrorist threat in Africa is no higher than anywhere else in the world.

"There are certainly terrorists on every continent and there's no question but that there are terrorists in Africa," he said. "I wouldn't say it's the next area of activity. I mean we have activity there now. This is a global problem."


Carl - 1/22/2004

Afraid of reality? Research itand you'll find out that the information referred to by the pretend-president was based on false information, which had been PROVEN to be false and misleading. Besides, it was the only piece of information available. Where is the info you talk about? I looked at the IEAA site and didn't find a thing. Prove it. Where's the info? Who said it? Has it been verified? NO. NO. And NO.


Carl - 1/22/2004

300,000 people died in auto accidents last year. Where's the outrage? Calls for increased safety measures in the construction of automobiles are constantly being rejected by conservatives.


Carl - 1/22/2004

You, as most conservatives, are full of crap. Do your research (most conservatives prefer Rush Limbaugh do all their thinking, but try anyway). Clinton handed the Bush team reams of documents and suggestions (including the threat and possible whereabouts of Osama bin Ladin) as soon as Bush was declared the pretend president. Bushes team summarily turned around and put all of it into the trashcan.

Think for yourself, you might actually turn into a liberal (if you are intelligent enough anyway.)


Caleb - 1/22/2004

Todd,
You are right, Clinton was impeaches for perjury, but it was about lying about having an affair and he was aquited. On the PR front however, he tried to argue that he was not lying at all, mearly misleading. So too with Bush, if you buy that. To me, Bush lied with or without an impeachment hearing.


ThinkTank - 1/22/2004

Bill Clinton was out of office for many months when 9/11 happened. You know for a fact he could have done nothing to stop it. In fact it probably was Bush's fault that 9/11 happened, because HIS negotiators went to the Taleban and demanded an oil pipeline through their territory and threatened to "bury them under a carpet of bombs" if they didn't allow it.


Todd Tharp - 1/22/2004

Actually Clinton was in trouble for telling falsehoods before a grand jury and suborning perjury...(he was fined by one of his own judicial appointees for lying in her court)

Clinton did lie. Bush did not.


Todd Tharp - 1/22/2004

Mr Meo, indeed the British government still stands by its assessment of Iraq's quest for uranium in Africa.

What may be confusing you is the forgeries in question dealt specifically with the Niger allegation. There are more than one countries in Africa, you know!

I'd say, based upon the 3 items in the British dossier (which Blair & Co. to this day stand by), Bush's words were accurate!

"But there is intelligence that Iraq has sought the supply of significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

I'd say that sounds like Britain has learned...

I suppose you are one of those who thinks Bush also lied about the imminence of the threat, in spite of his explicit counter to that notion later in the same speech?

"Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option."


Michael Meo - 1/22/2004

Thank you for the effort to defend the whopper, Mr Tharp. Since the British government had not "learned" any such a thing--perhaps it "suspected," or even "believed," the 17 words are, we can all see, factually inaccurate.


Ken Melvin - 1/22/2004

Where's the rationality? Last year some 18,000 Americans die from lack of health care.


Todd Tharp - 1/22/2004

Re: #2, There is no mention of "Niger" in Bush's SOTU speech.

Bullet, Page 9 of the dossier: * sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa, despite having no
active civil nuclear power programme that could require it;

Bullet, Page 20: * Iraq continues to work on developing nuclear weapons, in breach of its obligations under the Non-Proliferation Treaty and in breach of UNSCR 687. Uranium has been sought from Africa that has no civil nuclear application in Iraq;

Item #20, page 29: Following the departure of weapons inspectors in 1998 there has been an
accumulation of intelligence indicating that Iraq is making concerted covert
efforts to acquire dual-use technology and materials with nuclear applications.
Iraq’s known holdings of processed uranium are under IAEA supervision. But
there is intelligence that Iraq has sought the supply of significant quantities of
uranium from Africa. Iraq has no active civil nuclear power programme or
nuclear power plants and therefore has no legitimate reason to acquire uranium.

Bush's 16 words:

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.


Caleb - 1/21/2004

When Bill Clinton said that he did not have sexual relations with Monica Lewinski, he was factually correct, since he considered oral sex to be different from sexual relations (over 20% of Americans believe the same thing).

Why do I being this up? Because Republicans are trying to make the same argument with Bush, that is, focusing on technical language rather than the plain meaning of the statement. It is true, if one's looks at Bush's statement carefully, his claim could be considered correct (assuming that we agree what the term “learned” means).

In any event, what Bush meant was obvious to everyone at the time: that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons so we have to go to war to disarm it. The President of the United States, the Commander in Chief of the most powerful military in the world, in a speech that is the most watched in the year, validated the British report by using it as evidence against Iraq.

I cannot blame Republicans for trying to spin the story to make Bush sound OK. My fellow Democrats did the same for Clinton. Guess what? They were wrong, Clinton was a liar. Guess what else? Republicans are wrong too for the same reasons, because Bush is a liar. His lies may not have been deliberate, or maybe they were. Bush himself may have been lied to by others, or maybe he was not.

In any event, his claims about Iraq were untrue. He presented the litany of WMD as a factual reality when the intelligence was never THAT conclusive. He insinuated ties to the 9/11 attacks, and then refused to correct the inevitable misunderstanding of the American people. My Republican friends on this site will undoubtedly disagree with this, and will try to spin the facts in such a way as to make Bush look good. To you I say, I finally understand your frustration over Clinton the past 8 years. It sure does suck.


HH - 1/21/2004

A few points of fact on the British dossier in question:
1) The dossier was dated September 2002, months before Bush's State of the Union speech.
2) THERE IS NO MENTION OF NIGER ANYWHERE IN THIS DOSSIER. The British government, though prone to serious exaggeration elsewhere in the dossier, knew that the Niger "intelligence" was in fact a crude forgery four months before Bush's State of the Union address, and they therefore excluded it from this dossier.
3) Historians do not regard forgeries as "evidence". Nor should presidents.
4) The statement that "the British government had in fact learned of EVIDENCE that Hussein had sought quantities of uranium from Africa" is therefore factually incorrect. What the British government HAD learned of was a forgery falsely claiming that Hussein had sought quantities of uranium from Africa.
5) Only those willing to "grasp at straws" can deny that, if Bush's closest ally knew this in September, Bush himself knew it the following January, or that Bush knowingly deceived the American people on a matter of the utmost gravity in a State of the Union address.


Marianne - 1/21/2004

And when will Bush advocate for a transparent and complete accounting of the pre- 9/11 intelligence that was ignored or bungled on his watch, instead of doing his best to sweep it under the carpet before the election?

Clinton administration may have some answering to do, but so does Bush.


Todd Tharp - 1/21/2004

Moreover, the British dossier is online, the one the BBC's Gilligan said was 'sexed up', later to have egg on his face.
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Politics/documents/2002/09/24/dossier.pdf

It is a shame to see intelligent liberals so overcome by partisan hatred continue to repeat lies about 'lies', even if the face of evidence to the contrary.

I call it grasping at straws...


John Kipper - 1/21/2004

And Bill Clinton's incompetence (or evasions) resulted in 3000 civilian deaths. At least the soldiers volunteered for hazardous service and were armed and trained to resist. Where IS the accountability?


Herodotus - 1/21/2004

It's now quite widely acknowledged by those who have studied the issue closely that in point of fact Bush was factually correct in what he said: the British government HAD in fact learned of evidence, not coming from either the U.S. or British government, that Hussein had sought quantities of uranium from Africa. That's Africa, the whole continent under consideration, not Niger, which is only one country among many, where Wilson went.

In fact, the source of much of Iraq's radioactive material obtained over the years was African mines owned by French companies. The information's freely available from the IAEA, which noted as much repeatedly over the years (even before Iraq became an international pariah).


Meria - 1/20/2004

Where's the accountability?
Let alone the mess our economy is in, for his oil buddies at Halliburton to make a killing (literally) on.
Who knows what kind of delusional lies we will suffer through tonight.

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