Conversations from the 2nd History Carnival ...
My colleague, Sharon Howard, told me that the History Carnivals were worth doing. One of the reasons is that they launch conversations among us. History Carnival #2 concluded with Tim"Burke's Home for Imaginary Friends," a post about why he blogs. I liked it so much that I followed it over to Coffee Grounds, where the conversation continues.
There's also been a first-rate conversation among Hugo Holbling at Studi Galileiani (and in comments there), Another Damned Medievalist at Blogenspiel (and in comments there), Paul Newall at The Galilean Library, and Brandon Watson at Siris about Norman Cantor's Inventing the Middle Ages and the philosophy of history.
The 3rd History Carnival will be about 25 February. The guidelines for it are here. Rob Priest at Detrimental Postulation will be its host. Plan ahead and send your best post in the three weeks between 4 and 25 February to: Rob AT ifanything DOT com.


Re: So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
Why should I care that you are "challening representationalism" (and I would not presume to assume that I have any idea what you mean by either of these terms without asking) and if it doesn't mean a change in my historical practice, then how does it rise above the level of self-referential pseudo-mathematical psycho-linguistics?
I don't believe that philosophy is irrelevant to my work, epistemology in particular, but I also don't believe that it is necessary to fine tune the work I do to Kantian precision any more than string theory physics helps auto mechanics at their day job.
Re: So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
I can understand that history is a fascinating epistemological problem-set for philosophers, but philosophy does not fundamentally help us do our work as historians. The new and innovative ways of doing history over the last century have come from the social sciences; some of the literary theories have had an influence too, but for good or ill remains to be determined; philosophy as such does not yet present us useful tools or issues.
Once you're done defining "empirical" and "discipline" and all your other terms in such a way that your conclusions are "inescapable," we still have to go back and read real sources and draw reasonable inferences from partial and indirect data, and very little beyond Logic 101 (and some advanced work in common fallacies) is required or desirable. It might be a good thing to systematize our practice, or it might freeze us into a model in which we ask the same questions over and over and get the same answers (or worse, different ones) without ever resolving or progressing. Moreover, there are many different kinds of history writing, and evidence, each with their own epistemological issues, so that any "theory of history" has to take into account the multiplicity and variance of these materials.
Most of us know exactly where we sit on "truth, fact and the possibility (or otherwise) of neutral positions." We're not avoiding the questions; they're fundamental and we come to terms with them early and get on with the work of historians.
Re: So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
I read over the discussions at several sites where there were responses to your work and did not find them to be so "near-abuse" as you seem to. Rather, I saw people attempting to think with you and about your work. Norman Cantor, who was the original subject in the discussion, does tend to draw very strong reactions, pro and con. Frankly, I'd take it as a tribute to your work that so many historians on several sites found in it provocation to real engagement. As I said earlier, I think historians do tend to resist what I called "meta-questions" and we're trying to understand that and, maybe, from the perspective of our discipline, if it is that, we should.
Re: So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
I think Jonathan's got it pegged pretty well. I know that I have a philosophy of history (kind of), but can't articulate it very well precisely because much of it is antithetical to the kind of systemization that philosophers like. Also, more and more I see history as method or approach, and am loath to talk about greater meaning other than that history helps us understand where we came from and who we are. One of the things that Newell (I think) seemed to think was wrong with history is that, for example, people from different places might see the same events in different ways. To me, this is one of the true glories of history -- we are able to look at two very different viewpoints and then trace back and out and discuss reasons why those viewpoints are so different, and that gives us a more complete and better historical picture. At least, I think it does. The downside is that it's a bit messy and there are fewer "right" answers. But then I'm not sure that knowing the "right" answers is what learning is about.
Re: So what's your take on it?
I believe that there are individuals who make choices in the context of systems of behavior and belief based on available information, and that the aggregate of these choices -- conscious or not, surprising or predictable, effective or failure -- is history. Is that a philosophy? Probably not one that would satisfy a philosopher, but any time you systematize these things too much, it makes it impossible to account for the irrationality, partiality, selectivity, and contingent nature of both historical process and historiographical process.
But the real reason they wouldn't give you credit is that real departments don't give credit for courses they don't teach....
Re: So what's your take on it?
There's a graduate seminar in that somewhere.
So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
Re: So what's your take on it?
I put up a post at my blog explaining the slight distinction between the philosophy of history and historiography. Hopefully that will address the legitimate objections above. What bewilders me, however, is the notion that I think something is "wrong" with history. Instead, what I have suggested is that there are (apparently insurmountable) epistemological problems with the notion of historical verisimilitude. I can appreciate that some historians are uncomfortable with "meta-questions" but the vehement near-abuse I have received (elsewhere) in lieu of epistemological counter-argument is amazing.
The philosophy of history is usually split into two branches. The concerns expressed above are from the "speculative side"; I was addressing the "critical" while introducing both. Nevertheless, even a commitment to na instrumentalist conception of history is a philosophy of history (in the first sense with consequences for the second); what the philosopher is asking is for you to think about the implicit pressupositions we all employ, often without realising.