You do not have to register to participate in this poll for the first two weeks; after that, registration is required. We do ask all readers to abide by our civility guidelines whether they register or not.
To participate in our poll simply drop down to the bottom of this page and click on the word"Comments."
Food for Thought
Last week, while on stage with Haley Barbour, the governor of Mississippi, at the Atlantic-sponsored Washington Ideas Forum, I kept thinking this one thought: Black people are very forgiving people. Over and over again, this notion came to mind as I listened to Barbour spin himself away from a simple question I was asking, a question prompted by the recent work of the Washington Post's Eugene Robinson: Does the Republican Party actually believe that African-Americans would support it in numbers so long as party officials -- like Barbour -- venerate the Confederacy?...
The true, spin-free, answer, obviously, is that the Republican Party would rather not risk offending mythopoetic white Southerners by calling the Confederacy what it actually was -- a vast gulag of slavery, murder and rape....
I'm so interested in this issue I'm going to keep pursuing it -- the two sides of the issue, actually: The seeming black acquiescence to publicly-endorsed Confederacy-worship, and the reasons some white people -- and their leaders -- feel compelled to perpetuate such worship.


Re: Traitors One Traitors All
Re: Traitors One Traitors All
Yes, the Southern States should repudiate the Confederacy!
ERIC FONER:
“Lincoln comes into office not expecting to be the Great Emancipator. Nonetheless, he was deeply antislavery and had spoken many times before the Civil War of the ultimate extinction of slavery. He had refused in the secession crisis to compromise on the issue of the westward expansion of slavery even though that might have possibly avoided war.
“Lincoln was committed to some future abolition of slavery…
“In the 1840s Lincoln was a member of the Whig party. He hated slavery. There is absolutely no question in my mind that Lincoln hated slavery, but it was not a priority to him at that time. He was certainly not an abolitionist. He was opposed to the westward expansion of slavery, but he saw no way within the national political system that a politician like himself could actually do anything about slavery. It was a state institution. The Constitution did not give Congress any power over slavery in the states where it existed. Moreover, he saw it as a disruptive issue. He saw it as a threat to the stability of the Union.
“By the 1850s he’s changed. This issue of the westward expansion of slavery has now become the number one question in American politics and he now sees the expansion of slavery as the disruptive question threatening the Union. He comes to the position in eloquent, brilliant speeches that the nation must resolve to stop the expansion of slavery and to place slavery in what he called on the course of ultimate extinction.
"The Emancipation Proclamation... made the Union Army henceforth an agent of emancipation. Wherever the Union Army went, it was now part of its task to guarantee the freedom of these slaves.
“…the Emancipation Proclamation … really transforms the character of the Civil War in fundamental ways. It is really the turning point of the war, and Lincoln understands that. Whenever you think of Lincoln as a historian, in his own mind, he becomes the Great Emancipator. This is his role in history henceforth. He was an ambitious man who wanted to make an impact on history, and this is how he did it."
Repudiate the Confederacy!
Re: Traitors One Traitors All
Those same folks that were willing to fight a bloody war for the agreements made decades before couldn't abide by the ones they were making during the same time period.
The same union that decried Fort Pillow, committed the exact same atrocities with very little said.
Lincoln upheld the executions of 38 Lakota for the Mankato uprising, but no one was hung for the crimes at Sand Creek.
Pretending that one side was righteous and the other not is a hard pill to swallow when one looks at history as a whole.
Re: Traitors One Traitors All
Re: Confederacy
Repudiate the Confederacy
Re: Repudiate the Confederacy
Confederacy
Re: Confederacy
Re: Confederacy
Re: Traitors
Obviously, the US was an attempt to create a nation with a much broader democracy than England had at the time. Democratically speaking, it was a great step in the right direction. That would certainly not be true about an independent South.
And your complaints about Custer, Sheridan and Sherman are also largely irrelevant. The people starting the war have no room to complain about the brutality they brought on themselves.
Traitors
Re: Traitors
The U. S. apparently cared little for all the Native American nations they destroyed in their lust for gold, land, and power. Making heroes out of murderers like Custer, Sheridan, and Sherman is ridiculuous...
Re: Traitors One Traitors All
The Declaration of Independence was written by slaveholders to protect the rights of slaveholders based on a concept of natural law. The extension or lack of extension of that legal concept to other groups does not nullify the right of any group to seek separation. Southerners and America’s Founding Fathers are intellectually one and the same.
Bias?
In what universe is this NOT a racial comment?
Confederacy repudiation
What is of more concern to me, and the reason why I think the South needs to repudiate their so-called Heritage, is what happened after the Civil War. The resultant backlash against African-Americans with groups like the Klan and others, the Jim Crow Laws, segregation, and the rest, were -- and are -- no more than the embittered and angry tantrum of a child who has lost at his favorite game. I know that's bordering on trivializing something very serious, but I am speaking from a psychological perspective rather than sociological or human rights view.
The inability of many in the South to get over the events of 160 years ago simply shows that they are unable to deal with the problems and issues that face the country now. It is the same as if Germany and Japan wished to revive the Nazi and Imperial regimes out of a desire to “preserve their heritage.”
I was a Northerner who lived in the South during the Civil Rights Movement days and heard many times, in all seriousness, “If we’d had two machine guns and an airplane, we’d have won that damned war!” It demonstrated to me the unrealistic viewpoint of some Southerners who simply could not let go of a perceived glory that was, at best, tarnished and which, thankfully, faded quickly.
How?
Lets stay realistic in our political attacks on Republicans (that is what this is, after all) and leave the impossible, such as having "the south" "repudiate" the Confederacy and Middle East peace in the category of science fiction.
Re: How?
The question of what repudiation would look like is an interesting one: declining historical illiteracy among the Sons of Confederate Veterans groups; declining membership in neo-Confederate groups like the League of the South; abandonment of the Confederate Battle Flag as an official and unofficial emblem of local pride; declining sales for Lost Cause books and movies; greater historical depth and less mythology at historical sites. That's a start, anyway.
Re: How?
The South
Should the South Repudiate the Confederacy
But Faulkner was flummoxed by what he saw as the decline of the south following the Revolution. The succeeding generations of slaveholders were shortsighted, narrowly focused, parochial, ignorant, and poorly educated. They did not come anywhere near the quality of the dynast of Virginia gentlemen who lead not just the South, but the entire nation to freedom, democracy and independence. Succeeding generation became so obsesses with dominating black men and women, retaining them in chains that they could identify no other goal for the South or for the nation. This was the real tragedy of the Southern Nation, its obesession with race what U.B. Phillips called the Central Theme of Southern History, that is, that the black man should never become the equal of the white man.
Faulkner perceived this tragedy clearly, as one can see by reading his novels. Faulkner repudiated the Confederacy, but he did not repudiate the South and would never have considered repudiation of the Greatest Generation of American leaders.
We cant judge the past
A lot to learn