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Jewish Property Claims Against Arab Countries
By Michael R. Fischbach
Mr. Fischbach is Professor of History, Randolph-Macon College and the author of Jewish Property Claims Against Arab Countries (Columbia University Press (August 2008).
On April 1, 2008, the New York-based coalition Justice for Jews from Arab Countries (JJAC) trumpeted the fact that the United States House of Representatives passed Resolution 185, a non-binding “sense of the House” resolution calling attention to the fate of 800,000 Jews who left Arab countries in the wake of the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948, some without their property. The resolution referred to these Jews as “refugees,” and furthermore called on the President to ensure that American representatives at meetings of the United Nations and elsewhere make specific reference to them whenever mention was made of the issue of Palestinian refugees from 1948.  JJAC hailed the action as a step towards redressing the grievances of what some Jewish activists have called “the other refugees.”

But why had JJAC, established relatively recently in 2002, suddenly become active on behalf of the rights of ex-Arab Jews – called Mizrahi or Sephardic Jews, although both terms are problematic – decades after most of them left the Arab world to build new lives in relative obscurity? And why did the Resolution fail to call explicitly for Jewish property compensation or restitution? Furthermore, why did the Resolution, which JJAC helped to write, link the fates, rights, and avenues of possible redress of ex-Arab Jews with those of the Palestinian refugees from 1948, who were not responsible for the Jews’ dispossession in the first place? Were not the mass Jewish exodus from the Arab world and the resultant property losses important enough issues to merit congressional scrutiny on their own, without reference to the Palestinians?

            In fact, Resolution 185 was not the result of efforts to demand compensation for Jewish property losses in the Arab world, but rather to assist the government of Israel to blunt Palestinian refugee claims in any final Israeli-Palestinian peace deal. Such claims include not only property compensation, but also what Palestinian refugees called their “right of return” to their pre-1948 homes in Israel – Israel’s nightmare scenario. Unlike the demands for Holocaust reparations, compensation, and restitution that Jewish groups and the State of Israel alike have pursued with vigor over the decades, JJAC went out of its way to state that its campaign on behalf of Jews of Middle Eastern and North African descent was not seeking monetary recompense for property lost at the hands of Arab governments. Why have JJAC and other groups such as the World Jewish Congress (WJC) adopted this stance toward the claims of Jews from the Arab world?

The answer lies in these groups’ zeal in supporting Israeli diplomatic tactics and weakening Palestinian claims in advance of a final peace settlement. Ever since it confiscated the property of the 750,000 Palestinian refugees who fled or were expelled from their homes during the 1948 war, Israel has stated that it will compensate them for some of their property losses as part of a permanent Arab-Israeli peace. Starting in 1951, however, the Israelis linked these compensation obligations with the property losses sustained by tens of thousands of Iraqi Jews who immigrated to Israel after the Iraqi government had sequestered their property. Eventually, over 600,000 other Jews left the Arab world during and after 1948, with some of these suffering property losses as well. Outside of some efforts to register Jewish losses in the1950s, Israel, the WJC, and other international Jewish groups did nothing to seek damages.

The onset of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process in 1993 meant that for the first time in decades, concrete talks on Palestinian refugee claims and Israeli counterclaims might become a reality. Israel accordingly mobilized, and sought help from international Jewish groups to document losses. To arrive at concrete figures, Jewish groups like the American Sephardi Federation (ASF), the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries (WOJAC), as well as coalitions like the International Committee of Jews from Arab Lands, began distributing claims forms around the world starting in 1999 to collect data on Jewish losses to the Arab world. However, it soon became clear that this campaign was not working. Statistics were hard to come by, and Israeli officials admitted that what figures they were able to document were dwarfed by Palestinian compensation claims. Even with its counterclaims, Israel would owe a considerable amount of money. As a result, Israel proposed to Palestinian negotiators in 2000 and 2001 that an international fund be established, capitalized with Israeli and foreign contributions, which would entertain and pay out compensation claims from all sides to the conflict. With the compensation monkey shifted off its back to an international fund, Israel still faced another problem: the Palestinians’ demand for the right of return. Enter JJAC.

After the al-Aqsa Intifada put the peace process in deep freeze starting in 2001, the WJC developed a new strategy to prepare for the inevitable future resumption of talks. It decided to raise international awareness of the plight of the Mizrahi/Sephardic Jews by equating their experiences and claims with those of the Palestinian refugees. It began referring to the ex-Arab Jews as “refugees,” regardless of the reasons why they had left the Arab world. The purpose of such an equation was to negate Palestinian demands for the right of return by arguing that a permanent, irrevocable Jewish-Arab population transfer had occurred in the Middle East and North Africa after 1948: the Arab world’s Jews and their property for Palestine’s Arabs and their property. In the end, the WJC argued, it was an even exchange. The former Arab Jews were not demanding the right of return to the countries of their birth, so neither should the Palestinians demand the right of return to what is now Israel.

Following up on this, JJAC was established in the United States in September 2002 under the auspices of several American Jewish organizations. JJAC was, in fact, a new iteration of the same principle articulated by the WJC: support Israeli efforts to deflect Palestinian claims by enlisting the experience and losses of the Jews from the Arab world. JJAC pressed hard in its campaign to shift global thinking to accept the notion that Middle Eastern and North African Jews, most of whom now reside in Israel, were refugees deserving equal treatment and political legitimacy as the Palestinian refugees. JJAC took its campaign into the halls of power in the United States and Europe, and in March 2004, its congressional supporters first introduced a bill calling on the American administration to ensure that “any explicit reference [e.g., at international conferences] to the required resolution of the Palestinian refugee issue is matched by a similar explicit reference to the resolution of the issue of Jewish refugees from Arab countries” – an effort that eventually led to passage of House Resolution 185.

Is JJAC’s campaign likely to benefit Mizrahi/Sephardic Jews who suffered property losses when they left the Arab world? Is this even its intent? An “even exchange of populations and property” would leave claimants on all sides with nothing, except perhaps the possibility of seeking compensation from an international fund that does not yet exist. In fact, few efforts have been made over the decades by Israel or Jewish organizations to press for Mizrahi/Sephardic property compensation. This comes in marked contrast to efforts to obtain compensation, restitution, and reparations for European Holocaust survivors and heirs. In fact, individual ex-Arab Jews have on occasion sought compensation or restitution on their own, usually by appealing to Arab and foreign courts. Some in Israel have even sued their own government to force it to act on their behalf; one such case is before the High Court of Justice at this time. Throughout, however, no largely compensation has been paid, nor has any party pushed hard for Mizrahi/Sephardic compensation. Even now that JJAC and others are raising the issue of ex-Arab Jews, they, too, refrain from raising specific demands for compensation.

Is it then proper for JJAC, Israel, or any one else, to use Jewish property losses as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the Palestinians instead of demanding compensation? Why have they not championed compensation and restitution, as was done for Holocaust survivors and heirs? Have the groups bothered to ask ex-Arab Jews who should press their claims, and in what manner? Such questions are not simply political; they go to the heart of healing the wounds of Mizrahi/Sephardic history. Can justice truly be served, can recognition of Jewish suffering and loss truly be obtained, and can healing and renewal truly be achieved, if Jewish claims for dispossession at the hands of Arab regimes are not laid at the doorstep of the responsible parties, but rather used to deflect the claims and narrative of a third party? And if in the end, neither Palestinians nor Jews from Arab countries receive compensation and proper recognition, but find their grievances canceling each other out by groups and negotiators, can true Arab-Israeli healing and reconciliation occur?

Whether part of Arab-Israeli diplomacy or not, whether on their own, or in groups, or through the agency of Israel and others, Jews who left Arab countries must come to feel that their grievances are heard and addressed in a way that is acceptable to them if the wounds of Mizrahi/Sephardic historical memory are to be healed. Resolving these claims and healing this memory will go far toward creating better relations between Jews of Middle Eastern and North African descent and their Ashkenazic fellow citizens of Israel, between Israelis and their Palestinian neighbors, and between Jews and Arabs throughout the Middle East.

Author: 
Michael R. Fischbach
Bio: 
Mr. Fischbach is Professor of History, Randolph-Macon College and the author of Jewish Property Claims Against Arab Countries (Columbia University Press (August 2008).

Fundamental Differences


Despite the author’s attempt to create, not enthusiastically, a parallelism between the issue of Palestinian refugees and those indigenous Jews who chose to leave their, supposedly, Arab “homelands” during and post 1948, which era witnessed a marked deterioration of Arab/Jewish relations, some fundamental differences that define both issues DO Exist between the two issues that must be recognized .

First and Foremost is the historically unchallengeable fact that whereas:
-Palestinian refugees were driven out through a systemic Zionist/Jewish campaign of ethnic cleansing that included, inter alia, mass massacres of civilians (Deir Yassin)
-and forced eviction (Lod)
and,, for some,
-a desire to distance themselves from theatres of military operations in or very near to their actual dwellings during the war
Jewish departees :
-voluntarily chose to depart
-none were the subject of any kind of ethnic cleansing campaigns; no massacres, no forced eviction
AND
-none of them, except the relative few in Palestine, were in the proximity of any kind of a “war theatre” having lived in Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Morocco etc etc

Another fundamental difference is that, as their actual actions proved,
-most Jewish departees seemed to lack any sense of attachment or loyalty to their Arab “homelands” , hence no Jewish call for a “right of return”,
and
-chose instead either to join the then ongoing colonialist campaign launched and led by their western and east European brethren that ultimately led to the establishment of the Zionist colony, Israel, in Palestine
OR
- Find another life outside of the Middle East. all together seeking it in the USA, or Europe etc
WHEREAS
-Palestinian refugees were, still are, very firmly attached to their native land, Palestine, hence their ever active and ceaseless struggle and political campaign to exercise their Right of Return to it.

Going objectively over these fundamental differences both issues are no way comparable nor analogous being the case of Palestinian refugees first FORCED out of their homeland then DENIED the right of return to it versus the case of departees who voluntarily chose to depart from what was supposed to be their “homelands” for many centuries either to partake in the Zionist colonialist project or to seek a new life outside of the region all together,
Another important difference, though little known, is that several Arab countries have invited Jewish departeees to return (some did to Morocco) Israel adamantly rejects the implemention of the Palestinians' inalienable RIGHT of RETURN to their homeland.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Omar,

Reading what you write, I have say that you will says anything, including things you surely know are not true.

You say there were no massacres of Jews in Arab countries in and around the relevant time period. That, Sir, is simply untrue. Moreover, Sir, that massacres occurred has been brought to your attention on more than one occasion.

Let us start with 1929, at which point there was a massacre of Jews in Hebron - and, by the way, what you would call people indigenous to Hebron -. 67 were killed and those who lived there were forced to move.

In 1947, there were pogroms in Syria. As a result, shops and synagogues in Aleppo were destroyed. Thousands of Jews fled Syria.

In Egypt in 1945, there was a rise in anti-Jewish sentiment so that riots erupted. As a result, 10 Jews were killed. In addition 350 Jews were injured and there was property damages including the destruction of a synogogue.

In the Summer of 1947, the amendment to the Egyptian Companies Law resulted in the loss of livelihood for large numbers of Jews.

Between June and November 1948, there were bombs exploided in the Jewish Quarter. Seventy Jews were killed and 200 were wounded. In addition, thousands of Jews were arrested and the property of many people was confiscated. There were also riots that occurred, during which many Jews were killed.

In 1956, Egypt expelled 25,000 Jews and confiscated their property. Jews were officially made, as the result of a proclamation by the Egyptian Minister of Religious Affairs, "enemies of the state.“ The proclamation indicated that Jews would be expelled from the country. As a result, thousands of Jews were expelled from Egypt, allowed to take only one suitcase and a small sum of cash. Such people were, in connection with their expulsion, required to sign a declaration “donating“ their property to the Egyptian government.

There was subsequent persecution of Jews in the country. Must I describe it to you?

In Iraq, there were, of course, pogroms against Jews which resulted in 180 Jews were massacred. There was subsequent persecution.

In Morocco during June of 1948, there were riots in Oujda and Djerada in which 44 Jews killed. Many other Jewish people were wounded.

In Yemen during 1947, Muslim rioted after the UN Partition vote and, evidently, the local police force participated in the riots. In Aden the pogrom killed 82 Jews. Hundreds of Jewish homes were destroyed. Most of the Jewish stores and businesses were destroyed. In 1948m 50,000 Jews were forced out of Yemen.

In Tunisia, the rabbinical tribunal was abolished by the government in 1957. Thereafter (about a year later), Jewish community councils were required to be dissolved. The Jewish quarter of Tunis was also destroyed by the government. There were riots against Jews after the Six Day War began. The Great Synagogue of Tunis was burned down.

In Libya,there was a pogrom in Tripoli on November 5, 1945. In excess of 140 Jewish people were massacred. In addition, nearly all of the synagogues in Tripoli were looted. In June of 1948, there were riots. 12 Jews were killed and 280 Jewish homes were ruined. In 1949, in excess of 30,000 Jews fled Libya.

Following the Six-Day War, there were pogroms. 18 Jewish people were killed, and many were injured, resulting in Jews fleeing the country.

In Algeria in 1934, there was a pogrom in Constantine that resulted in 25 Jews being killed and many other injured.

After obtaining independence in 1962, the Algerian government persecuted the country's Jews, taking away their economic rights so that 150,000 Jews were forced to leave Algeria.

Again, Omar, when you make things up - in this case, after having been told of such facts -. you continue to spew falsehoods. That is not becoming.

Please note that most of the rest of your facts are made up as well. Must I address all of them.

And, lastly, Omar. There is a case to be made for the Arab position. You, however, have not made it. And, frankly, Omar, making stuff up is unbecoming.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Right Omar. Arab immigrants to Europe and America are so firmly attached to the countries they came from. That's why they just can't wait to get back.

The fact is that immigrants/refugees only long to "get back" to places they came from when the place of refuge is even worse. Hence, the policies maintained by every Palestinian leadership since 1948 and Egyptian and Jordanian leaders before 1967: Keep the Palestinians in horrible, camp conditions in order to stoke resentments that the leadership easily bypassed with the millions they took for themselves - billions in Arafat's case.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Mr Friedman
Arab/Jewish inter communal relations were severely strained with the unveiling of Zionist colonialist designs on Palestine and incidents DID occur with casualties in both communities.
HOWEVER
None of the incidents you describe, both real and made up, was part of a "systemic cleansing campaign (of Jews from Arab countries)" undertaken by an official Arab organ , such as those perpetrated by the Jewish Haganah, Stern and others which later became the back bone of the Israeli army, as were, inter alia, Deir Yassin and the eviction of Lod (Lydda) , led by future prime minister Yitzhak .Rabin if memory does NOT fail me
Or as for Qibbya undertaken directly by the Israeli army under the command of Sharon, of Sabra and Shatilla fame, who later become, in full public appreciation of his, and Rabin’s, valor at the massacres of civilians, prime ministers of Israel!

EVEN you should be able to see the difference!

Many of the so called "pogroms" you allude to, particularly in Iraq, I was/am told by an Iraqi old timer, were incited and paid for by Zionist circles to induce, actually coerce, Jews to emigrate into the then abuilding Zionist colony in Palestine and were implemented by "hoodlums" paid for by resident agents of the Jewish agency .
It is an undeniable historical fact, revealed and confirmed by the LAVON affair in Egypt, that the Jewish leadership at the time made all sorts of moves to exacerbate the relations between indigenous Jews living in Arab countries and the Arab masses.

I note with pleasure that you have restricted your repost to the issue of "massacres" and totally neglected all other facts which determine and define the issue.
I construe that as tacit confirmation of all the other points I made.

(An aside: It is NOT, certainly, for you, or any body like you, to tell me what is and what is NOT "becoming".
For me to heed such a remark it has to come from a source of verifiable objectivity and patent non bias...to say the least
You certainly DO NOT qualify.)

Re: Fundamental Differences

Simon
Whether "the place of refuge" is better or worse is not for you to decide NOR it is THE ISSUE.
The crux of the matter is the only too natural human desire of people to return to their homelands .

Your attempt at a Europe/America analogy is misleading, deceptive and irrelevant for none of the Arabs you allude too were subjected to mass massacres of civilians,eg Deir Yassin, nor forcedly evicted,eg Lod; to name but a few cases.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Omar,

There was no plan to rid Israel of Arabs. Otherwise, they would all be long gone.

There was a plan - not directed at ethnic cleansing but, rather, at moving people out of the way during the fighting in order, a, to limit the numbers of civilians killed and, b, to cripple the effort by Arabs to cleanse the region of Jews.

You say there was no effort at ethnic cleansing. Recall that on May 15, 1948, Azzam Pasha, the Secretary-General of the Arab League declared that "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades."

That sounds like a call for genocide, not to mention ethnic cleansing.

As for suggesting that my facts are not true, that is a lie.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Again, Omar, what you write is untrue!!!

Re: Fundamental Differences

Untrue?

So no Arab immigrating to America or Europe did so to flee massacres or fears of similar persecutions? I find that to be a remarkable assertion. Perhaps you have evidence to back it up. Then again, perhaps you don't.

Hey, it's not for me to decide if someone should prefer to live in squalor or not. But it's not for you to reject the evidence that says they generally don't, either. And if you want to go the extra step and justify the policies that the PLO used to keep the Palestinians in squalor for political purposes, then feel free to do so. As it stands, even if you don't want to do that outright, it's hard to conclude anything else.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Omar has stated his position long ago: Jews who fled or were expelled from Arab lands did so voluntarily, to become voluntary "colons" over the Palestinians, and there was no confiscation of Jewish property in Arab lands, none.

We can present the terrible facts, so that other readers can know them, and this we must do.

But as for Omar, he remains what he is, in his
invincible ignorance and malice. But he is so ignorant, and so malicious, that he is an easy target.

I suspect that deep inside Omar is a masochist. No one could absorb the continual severe humiliations he has had to suffer as his ignorance is exposed at the hands of people who actually *know* something, and keep coming back, unless he is a masochist.

We have the facts; he doesn't; we have a sophisticated and balanced historical analysis; all he has is spewed-forth hatred; therefore, he always loses. So be it.

Of course, Jews weren't the only victims of Middle Eastern ethnic and religious cleansing in the 1950s--real cleansing, by government fiat. This also happened after 1956 to 300,000 Greeks in Egypt, and another 75,000 or so Greeks in northern Turkey. Nobody is upset about this now. They don't have the PR of the Palestinians, it wasn't Jews who did it to them, and they do not engage in savage terrorism against civilians, so nobody--especially on the Left--cares that these terrible things happened.

Re: Fundamental Differences

HOWEVER
None of the incidents you describe, both real and made up, was part of a "systemic cleansing campaign (of Jews from Arab countries)" undertaken by an official Arab organ , such as those perpetrated by the Jewish Haganah, Stern and others which later became the back bone of the Israeli army, as were, inter alia, Deir Yassin and the eviction of Lod (Lydda) , led by future prime minister Yitzhak Rabin if memory does NOT fail me.
Or as for Qibbya undertaken directly by the Israeli army under the command of Sharon, of Sabra and Shatilla fame, who later become, in full public appreciation of his, and Rabin’s, valor at the massacres of civilians, prime ministers of Israel!

Re: Fundamental Differences

"I suspect that deep inside Omar is a masochist. No one could absorb the continual severe humiliations he has had to suffer as his ignorance is exposed at the hands of people who actually *know* something, and keep coming back, unless he is a masochist."(Re: Fundamental Differences (#126541)
by art eckstein on August 18, 2008 at 10:48 PM)

Thus spake the multi awarded Professor who having failed in his primary vocation as a historian and a specialist in Islamic affairs ( he does NOT know the difference between "shura" and "shariaa") is turning now towards psychoanalysis hoping to have a new career!
However judging by his first (?) attempt at that he seems to be doomed to the same failure!
Only the fact that he is in charge of "educating" students makes him note worthy ....otherwise he is totally unworthy of any note!

Re: Fundamental Differences

I'm not a historian of Islamic affairs. That's not my promary vocation. I just strive to inject facts and honesty into this blog, even if it means eternal battle with Omar.

If, long ago, Omar was unclear about what he meant by a shura state, and evasive about whether he wished to impose sharia law everywhere in that state when he was directly questioned on that topic, and if he also stated he favored a universal Caliphate ("I'm in favor of al-Qaeda's goals, though not always their means")--well, it's not fault of mine if I interpreted this to mean he was in favor of the imposition of a religious-totalitarian state.

Indeed, I'm not sure that an alleged shura-council would modify that view of mine--ultimately, Omar favors a religious-totalitarian state--more than slightly.

After all, he fervently supports Hamas. (Sure, Hamas was elected; so was Hitler.) The nightmare in Gaza is so oppressive that Fatah-members are fleeing to Israel! The Christian population is fleeing as well.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Thanks Art, as always, for more facts.

This fact I found especially interesting:

"The nightmare in Gaza is so oppressive that Fatah-members are fleeing to Israel! The Christian population is fleeing as well."

I wasn't aware that there were many Christians in Gaza. But no matter. That's a minor quibble and obviated, in any event, by the well-documented fact that they've fled the West Bank under the "stewardship" of the PLO.

What is interesting is to compare the observations to the following statement by Omar:

"Whether "the place of refuge" is better or worse is not for you to decide NOR it is THE ISSUE.
The crux of the matter is the only too natural human desire of people to return to their homelands ."

Apparently he is unbothered by what Fatah and Palestinian Christians have decided on the matter. Nor does he think that, for them, could it be "THE ISSUE" getting in the way of the "crux of the matter". Whatever.

Re: Fundamental Differences

In the likely event that he considers Israel a "homeland" for Palestinian Christians or Fatah members, we should ask Omar if he thinks Hamas is justified in persecuting these people so as to facilitate their migration to the Jewish State. We should ask what he also thinks that Hamas/Fatah should be thanked for facilitating the migration of gay Palestinians to Israel by persecuting them as well - even if they will likely not contribute as much to the "Arab womb as a demographic weapon against Israel" trope.

Re: Fundamental Differences, for E. Simon

Dear E. Simon,

Omar takes as "natural" a ferocious desire of all humans to return to their "homeland". This is to naturalize the degeneration of Palestinian Arab culture into a Nazi-like death-cult.

12 million Germans were forced out or fled Eastern Europe in 1945, and 1 million of them died, and half-a-million of them were raped; that is a tragedy EIGHTEEN TIMES the size of the Naqba, and inconceivably larger in terms of deaths. These Germans are not, by law, permitted to return to, e.g., Poland, the Czech Republic or Romania.

Yet: (a) there is no international furore over this, and (b) these Germans and their descendants are not blowing up schoolchildren in Danzig, Prague, or Bucharest.

7 million Hindus were forced out or fled Pakistan in 1947; again, 1 million of them died. This is TWELVE TIMES the size of the Naqba, and the number of dead is inconceivably larger. Yet we don't see these Hindus or their descendants blowing up supermarkets filled with peaceful shoppers in Karachi.

The same can be said about the 850,000 Jews who fled or were expelled from Arab lands in 1948-1960 (100,000 MORE VICTIMS than the Naqba), or the 300,000 Greeks who fled or were expelled from Egypt in the mid-1950s (a classic case of GOVERNMENT-MANDATED ethnic and religious cleansing), or the 50,000 Greeks who fled or were expelled from northern Turkey in the same period (DITTO), or the 600,000 Christian Lebanese who have fled Lebanon since 1989 (60,000 since 2006).

There is nothing "natural" about the Palestinian Arab Nazi-like death-culture. Rather, it is--as Omar has PROUDLY stated in other, different contexts here at HNN--a voluntary cultural CHOICE: other peoples, Omar says, are simply not as "noble" as the Palestinians.

Indeed, in a previous blog it was well-established that there was always significant in-migration of Palestinian Arabs from place to place within the borders of the Mandate, so that by 1931 about 12% of the Arab population of the sub-districts that became israel had migrated to those sub-districts in the past ten years.

So, once more, we can't let Omar get away here with the "natural" argument. And it helps to point how how he contradicts himself, since elsewhere he proudly proclaims the Nazi-like death-cult that is now Palestinian culture as (not natural but) a voluntary cultural CHOICE.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Omar,

In Egypt, there was an official proclamation that Jews would be expelled. That sounds pretty systematic to me.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Mr Friedman
Kindly document , show, indicate, pinpoint your source re the "official proclamation that Jews would be expelled."That is new news to me!

official measures to lead to expulsion of Jews from Egypt

Omar asks for evidence and specifics of official measures that led to the expuslion of Jews from Egypt.

Official Measures that lead to the expulsion of Jews from Egypt, dealing (merely) with the period 1956-1957:

According to official Egyptian documents, four specific kinds of measure directly and radically affected the rights, status and very existence of many Jews in Egypt. These were: police detention; sequestration of businesses and property; explusion from the country; and promulgation of a new statute under which Jews were deprived of citizenship.

Regarding the first category, Article 3, Paragraph 7, and Article 7 of Emergency Law No.5333 of 1954, on the Proclamation of a State of Siege in Egypt, authorized the Military Government of Egypt 'to order the arrest and apprehension of suspects and those who prejudice public order and security'. Under these provisions, hundreds of Jews, without charges against them, were detained, imprisoned or otherwise deprived of their liberty.

According to representatives in Egypt of an important international relief organization, at least 900 Jews had been arrested as of 7 December 1956. Five hundred were interned in the Jewish school at Abbasiyya in Cairo. As of 3 December, 261 of these 500 were stateless; the rest were Egyptian citizens. At the Abraham Batesh Jewish school in Heliopolis, another 42 Jews were detained, most of them women, many of them aged. This group included 19 stateless persons and 23 others. At Les Barrages prison north of Cairo, 300 Jews were detained, half of them stateless; the other half British and French subjects. Limited to the Cairo area, and excluding Alexandria and the smaller, dwindling communities of the Nile Delta, these figures cannot represent the total number of Jews then imprisoned in Egypt.

Furthermore, many Jewish families in Cairo and Alexandria were held in confinement at their homes for considerable lengths of time, often without funds, food or other supplies, under surveillance by building concierges invested with police authority to control Jewish tenants under confinement, and supplied with firearms to render this control more effective.

Sequestration and economic strangulation: under the authority of Military Proclamation No.4 'relative to commerce with British and French subjects and to measures affecting their properties' (Journal Officiel, No.88, bis A of 1 November 1956), 19 directives appeared in the Journal Officiel of Egypt. Eleven (Nos.170-177 and 186-188) overwhelmingly affected the property of Jews. Military Proclamation No.4 appeared under the heading of 'Regime of Sequestration'. It stated in Article 1 that:

The commissioner of the management of properties of persons interned or placed under surveillance, charged with the execution of the provisions of Law No. 176 of 1956, will assume the management of the properties of the following persons and institutions: 1) all persons who were interned or placed under surveillance in execution of the law relative to the state of siege; 2) every company, association or foundation, whatever its purpose may be, functioning under the control of any single person cited above, or any person having an important interest in it; 3) all persons who reside outside the Republic of Egypt and function under the control of any of the aforementioned persons or those who have an important interest in them.

About 95 per cent of the people who suffered from this government measure were Jews. It is noteworthy that these directives issued under Military Proclamation No.4 did not refer to properties owned by British and French subjects which were sequestered under Military Proclamation No.5 - also affecting a number of Jews - but exclusively refer to assets of Egyptian citizens, stateless Jews, and Jews of nationalities other than British and French. All in all, it is estimated that between November 1956 and March 1957 assets of at least 500 Jewish-owned firms were sequestered and their bank accounts frozen; 800 more enterprises under Jewish proprietorship were placed on an economic blacklist and their assets frozen.(11)

The persons and firms affected by this measure represented the bulk of the economic substance of Egyptian Jewry, the largest and most important enterprises, and the main sustenance, through voluntary contributions, of the Jewish religious, educational, social and welfare institutions in Egypt. The resulting paralysis of these institutions substantially aggravated the uprooting effect of the government's anti-Jewish policies and greatly intensified the pressure for Jews to leave the country.

In addition to depriving owners of their properties and income, the sequestration measures indirectly affected the livelihood of a much broader circle of Jews, those employed by firms placed under custodianship. It was reliably reported that all sequestered firms received instructions to discharge all employees of the Jewish faith and acted accordingly. Nor was the elimination of Jews from Egyptian economic life confined to sequestered firms and assets. There were other measures, mostly unofficial, which prevented a large, additional group of Jews from earning a living. For example, most Jews had already lost their positions in public companies and many private firms which were not subject to sequestration. At the same time, many Jews in independent private enterprises were prevented from doing business by the denial of trade permits, export and import licenses, foreign currency allocations, and other administrative facilities essential to the continuation of business. As a result, Jews were either forcibly excluded or voluntarily withdrawing from business. Likewise, a steadily growing number of Jewish physicians, lawyers and engineers were, by various means, prevented from practising their professions.(12)

The character and intent of the sequestration policy was rather clearly revealed by one of its original provisions. Sequestration order No. 189 authorized the commissioner of sequestered properties to deduct from all capital assets under his custody, ten per cent of their value, as well as ten per cent of the current income of income-producing properties, to be used for administrative and other undefined purposes. This provision transformed the measure into an instrument for at least partial confiscation of these assets, pointing, at the same time, towards the strong probability that this policy aimed at something more drastic and final than mere custody.

Expulsion and "voluntary" empigration as Egyptian governmental polciies were not entirely distinct. By the end of November 1956 at least 500 Egyptian and "stateless" Jews had been expelled from Egypt, not including a considerable number of Jewish citizens of Britain and France. Most of the expellees were heads of families. They were ordered to leave the country within two to seven days.

In most cases, the individual served with a deportation order was a breadwinner responsible for supporting his family; but all members of the family had to leave the country. Thus, this measure indirectly forced out of Egypt several times the number of those who received expulsion orders. However, official deportation orders were by no means the most effective instruments for thorough forced emigration.

At the end of November 1956, direct, individual expulsion orders ceased, only to be replaced by the more subtle, potent techniques of intimidation and psychological warfare against the Jewish population as a whole. Under these pressures and the simultaneous economic harassment of Jews, a much larger and steadily growing emigration movement began. Jews 'voluntarily' obliged themselves, in formal declarations to the authorities, to leave the country and, in the case of Egyptian nationals, to relinquish their citizenship.(13)

Both the formal expulsion orders and the 'voluntary' pledges to expatriate oneself struck Jews of every status - citizens, stateless persons, and foreign subjects alike. All laissez-passer documents issued to them expressly stated that the person leaving Egypt would not be permitted to return, and that they voluntarily renounced all claims against Egypt. More than 20,200 Jews emigrated between 22 November 1956 and 30 June 1957. In all, between 23,000 and 25,000 out of the 45,000 Jews left Egypt: that is, more than 50% of all Egyptian Jews left in one seven month period.

The emigration, expulsion and flight began on a large scale with thousands of people flocking to the offices of the Rabbinate, consulates, and embassies seeking advice, assistance and means of escape. The port of Alexandria and the airfield at Cairo were jammed with refugees leaving the country. Initially, government officials showed little leniency in customs inspections, arbitrarily confiscating any items which were believed to be of value. The pressure at points of embarkation was so great that there was no time for individual treatment. In the bedlam of this situation, thousands of people left with hardly more than the clothes on their backs.

The American Embassy was seriously disturbed by the situation. On several occasions it made representations about it to the Egyptian government, warning of the negative impact that measures against the Jews might have on world public opinion. The American representations had no impact.

Perhaps more important was the intercession on behalf of the Jewish community by UN Secretary-General Dag Hammarskold. Many members of the Jewish community felt that his intercession, brought about through informal advances by the Jewish community to neutral embassies, considerably lightened the Egyptian governmental measures.

Denaturalization (deprivation of citizenship) also affected Egyptian Jews. A long-standing device to achieve 'national homogeneity' had been the Egyptian nationality law of 13 September 1950. On 22 November 1956 this law was amended by a decree-law promulgated by the President of the Republic (i.e. Nasser). Article 1 proclaimed that:

Only individuals resident on Egyptian territory before 1 January 1900, who maintained their residence until the date of promulgation of the present decree and who are not under the jurisdiction of a foreign state, are Egyptians.

The legally incapacitating intent and effect of this provision are quite clear in spite of the camouflaging formulation.

First, the law could easily be interpreted to mean that if an 'undesirable' individual left the country, even for a brief stay abroad, he thereby automatically failed to 'maintain his residence' until the date of the new law. Through this device, Egyptian citizens of the Jewish faith were easily deprived retroactively of their acquired citizenship.

Second, an even more dangerous loophole was hidden behind the stipulation of the cut-offdate of 1 January 1900. There was simply no officially valid documentation in existence which could attest to the residence of persons in Egypt at that remote point in time. Through this loophole, not only were new certificates of nationality denied to undesired applicants, but it was now possible for the authorities to annul existing certificates retroactively.

But the 1956 Law did not stop at these stipulations. It went on to impose special disabilities expressly upon Jews alone. Article 1 further stipulated that:

Neither Zionists nor those against whom a judgement has been handed down for crimes of disloyalty to the country or for treason, shall be covered by this provision.

To make the intent of this provision clear beyond doubt, Article 1 added that:

No request for the delivery of a certificate of Egyptian nationality will be accepted from persons known as Zionists . . .

This was the first instance in the history of law where the concept of Zionism was applied in a nationality statute as a criterion of citizenship and as an indirect basis for denaturalization. Since the law furnished no definition whatsoever of the term 'Zionist', it was obvious that the Egyptian authorities could apply this provision at will to any person of the Jewish faith.

ENOUGH FOR YOU, OMAR?

Re: Fundamental Differences

Omar,

Professor Eckstein has provided the requested information. It is entirely accurate.

Is Anyone Listening?

The hamster wheel goes round and round whether it be on this page or sadly in the actual negotiations in the Middle East. Truth and reconciliation remain chimerical.

After reading more than a few posts here it seems as if no one is responding to Prof. Fishbach's point; the losses of Sephardic Jewish refugees/immigrants in the Middle East who left willingly or otherwise is being subsumed by the American/Israeli community's desire to equate the Sephardim's losses to those suffered by Palestinian refugees to thwart Palestinian reparation and return.

I may be the only person on this page who does not have Semitic ancestors. You all have much in common. I've known Jews since I can remember, I've lived with them. One of my sisters married a Palestinian American. I was sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians before I met Muhamed. The Palestinian Americans I know are like the Jewish Americans I know, they don't care what ethnicity you are. Yet on this page and so many other posts on HNN the same story over and over.

There's a reason blacks and Jews in this country share a devotion to civil rights. Those Jewish refugees in the Middle East doubtless had to flee in many or most instances. I need to read Fishbach's book or maybe read some more Wikipedia or the Jewish Virtual Library to learn more.

The dynamic on this page reflects the larger picture in America regarding the status of Palestinians. The New York press gives rave notices to a Golda Meir Broadway bio, while an off Broadway Rachel Corrie drama is cancelled due to pressure. Tom Shales in the Wash Post reviewed a Helen Thomas documentary on HBO yesterday, his chief criticism, the film makers concealed her anti-Israel bias. She had the temerity to suggest that McCain/Obama were pro-Israel. To criticize Israel in America is to be un-American. This is McCarthyism. Omar according to the posts on this page is a racist,masochist,ignorant,fool. Much the same has been said of me. The license to engage in this kind of one sided; you must either be evil or a fool to be anti-Israel, is osmotic.

Until the American press recognizes the sins of Israel, which obviously the press in Israel is free to do, America can't be a change agent for Israel-Palestine. Of course our press is pro-American in all foreign affairs it's just that we now have to have two foreign policies, "to make us more secure and make Israel secure,"-Joe Biden. That tilt a world perspective plus a blanket pro-Israeli press hurts us all and it encourages the simplistic, however couched in learned argot,defensiveness evident here.

What I learned on summer vacation, while posting,researching. Damn, here I am trying to meet half way but my opinion after learning more: San Remo,Rothschilds,al-Husseini,Zionist letters-documents etc., leaves me much where I began. When the Jews jumped out of the burning building they landed on the Palestinians' necks. The Sephardic refugees were just one of the countless ramifications that continue to grow from the creation of Israel and until the essential injustice of imposing a colony whose chief catalysts were events which occurred thousands of miles away(hello America)on innocent people is addressed, with the understanding that Israel is a fact, peace, which would serve everyone, can't happen.

Re: Is Anyone Listening?

Mr. Butler,

No one here has accused you, so far as I know, of antisemitism. What has been noted is that you fail to show the remotest bit of sympathy for Jews, which is a different thing.

Moreover, people have studied the dispute in some detail find your citation to quotes - without providing the slightest bit of context - rather trivial. Moreover, you have shown no knowledge of the facts and seem to make judgments based on broad stroke assertions - the information for which appears to come from propaganda, not historical facts.

My suggestion is that you read a variety of books about the dispute, by people who hold different viewpoints. That may sound patronizing but, frankly, quoting sources without knowing the context of a quote - and taking those quotes from Wikiquote to boot - amounts to being a propagandist, not someone interested in historical events.

As for Omar, he appears to be a Hezb'Allah supporter. That party is, whether one is pro-Arab, pro-Muslim or not, an offensive, Antisemitic party which publicly espouses genocide. Such places it far to the right of the Kach party, which the Israelis once labeled a racist party.

As for the accusation that pro-Arab views are not heard in the US or are otherwise silenced in the US, that is nonsense. Open up The New York Times. Yesterday will do. The paper's editorial yesterday took the pro-Arab side. Note: The New York Times is the leading newspaper in the US.

After criticizing the Israelis, the paper, most oddly, fantasizes that "A way must be found to help turn Hamas into a legitimate and acceptable negotiating partner." One might ask how a group which makes Israel's destruction into the will of Allah will be turned into something that would violate its view of its religion? That is a fantasy to anyone the least bit familiar with Hamas. Just ask our Omar, who will set you straight on this point. The Hamas will not change but will remain committed to Jihad struggle to destroy Israel.

In fact, on any given day, the papers are filled with articles that take the pro-Arab side of the dispute or otherwise fantasize Arab flexibility that has no basis at all in fact. Would you like me to post the URL's for such articles from a variety of recent editions of US papers?

That Rachel Corrie did not make it as a play in New York - although it was shown elsewhere in the US - is not an argument. It is propaganda.

Re: Is Anyone Listening?

Ho hum, Mr. Friedman, I have been labeled an anti-semite on these pages, I can't rememeber his name, but I googled him when it happened and found out he was a history professor at the University of Maryland, that's a good school.

Like I've said before I can laugh at the professor and you because for all your intellectual appurtenances; texts from the 1920's written by colonial Brits superior to Wikipedia even though I find the same quotes on Jewish sites,the JVL being just one, the idea that the word "Oxford" connotes some quasi-sacred verity upon it's user, you and the other hard line pro-Israel posters are bullies. You seem to think that by citing your group's collective mindset and saying that my posts reveal a gift for the trivial and non-factual I'm going to be deterred from stating a simple inescapable truth; the modern state of Israel(I've said this from the time I first posted, it ain't going away)is a neo-colonial entity created almost entirely by Europeans by events in Europe. If any Talmudic message is relevant it's the one Hillel stated when asked to stand on one foot and reveal its myriad truths; the Golden Rule. I was raised Catholic and if I thought the Vatican's history represented me. Exile would be my only choice.

Re: Is Anyone Listening?

Mr. Butler,

I have not called you anything that calls your reputation as a human being into question. Maybe someone, somewhere - but not I - did but, evidently, you are unable to provide any evidence for it.

What is wrong with being a colony? In the US, we celebrate the fact that we were a colony. The Mexicans do not seem to mind having been a colony. Neither do the Canadians. Neither do the Brazilians. Neither do the Arabs outside of Arabia. What is wrong, if Israel is or was a colony - or, to use your phrase, "neo-colonial entity" -, with Israel being or having been just that?

Factually, of course, what you write could not be further from the truth. The British, of course, were colonialists and Jews attempted to coop the British to help a Jewish cause, namely, the creation of a Jewish homeland. But, that does not make the Jews into colonialists.

Jews, in fact, were migrants (Have you not heard the phrase, so commonly used to describe Europe's Jews, "wandering Jew"?), hoping to make a life - something which, Mr. Butler, you attempt, rather unsuccessfully, to belittle with your label "neo-colonial entity" -, just like you. In fact, it was Jews who drove the actual colonialists, the British, out. How does that anti-colonial act square with your assertion? Of course, it does not. Of course, such fact shows that the Jews had a different agenda, one of their own - hence, one that, by definition, cannot be colonial.

Moreover, you would say that it is a country "created almost entirely by Europeans by events in Europe." One might ask, assuming, arguendo, that your point were well taken, which it is not: How does that matter?

Again, though, the Europeans of that time did not consider Jews to be European. The common trope was that Jews are Orientals. Pick up and book on that period and you will see that I am correct. Moreover, Israel would not have survived the year of its creation had the Arab states not made their Jewish populations flee.

Now, if you do not want people to call you Antisemitic - a point which seems to rile you so that, please understand, I am merely explaining something to you, not labeling you something vile -, do not reach into the Talmud to show your bona fides. That, after all, is a typical stunt employed by an Antisemitic souls.

Once more, I ask you to answer my early questions. What is wrong, morally or otherwise, for Jews from the Arab regions and/or Europe (neither region having ever - as in it never occurred -, as of the time of Israel's creation, treated Jews as equals and both regions, at times, having severely persecuted and oppressed Jews) attempting to solve their problem - a problem the world ignored - by creating their own land, just as former American slaves who created Liberia? And, since it is certainly arguable that solving their problem might inevitably create a problem for others, why should that bother us any more than what "Greeks" (from what is now Greece and also, in large numbers, from a diaspora in Europe) did to sever a brand new country, Greece - a country that had never existed in the history of the world -, from the Ottoman Empire, expelling millions of Muslims and, at the same time, bringing in millions of Christians (i.e. now called Greeks) from both Europe and the Ottoman Turkey? In fact, Israel's creation is a trivial affair compared to the creation of Greece. Yet, you do not call the creation of Greece a colonial or neo-colonial endeavor - when, by your definition, it certainly is.

Please do not respond by using the buzz words like colonial or neo-colonial. To paraphrase Nietzsche, words used as labels are a substitute for thinking. In other words, let me know what is wrong and not your command of words that have no meaning except to initiates in your world of politics.

Arab nomads west of the Jordan

It seems that Fischbach is taking a tendentious approach to this issue, refusing to take any claims by these Jewish groups at face value. He even refuses to call them "refugees," putting the term in quote marks as if to cast doubt on the term's applicability here. His tone seems to verge toward that of n finkelstein in re the Holocaust. Anyhow, he is of course entitled to his opinion. But some of Fishbach's claims are simply wrong or very dubious.

1) that "some [left] without their property." I believe that it would be more correct to say that the overwhelming majority left without their property. Although some possessed major assets and property in Arab lands and were able at an early stage to transfer assets abroad, most could not realize monetarily what they could not carry. Real estate and much movable property was simply abandoned or confiscated before departure. Bat Ye'or, probably not one of Fishbach's sources, writes that Jews could take only what they could carry and even that was often despoiled by Egyptian customs officers. I believe that Michael Laskier [or Lasker?] wrote some more authoritative articles on Jewish refugees from Egypt and Morocco.

2) The book Forgotten Millions, ed. by Malka Hillel Shulewitz contains an article documenting Arab League plans to drive out Jews and confiscate their property in case of UN General Assembly recommendation for Partition [11-29-1947]. Bear in mind the threats made by Egyptian and Iraq delegates to the UN if the General Assembly recommended partition.

Jews had lived in Arab-ruled lands in a state of legal inferiority for more than 1000 years. This state, shared with Christians and others, was called dhimma. Jews, like other dhimmis, had undergone massacres, economic exploitation, oppression, humiliation varying in intensity with time and place throughout the period since the Arab conquests. To say that the Jews were not refugees, or to cast doubt on this, is not quite Holocaust denial, but it is denial of reality.

3) "Israeli officials admitted that what figures they were able to document were dwarfed by Palestinian compensation claims."
Now, Fishbach admits that there were more Jewish refugees from Arab lands than Palestinian Arab refugees, 800,000 vs 750,000. By the way, I think that he underestimates the number of Jews who left Arab-ruled lands and exaggerates the number of
Arabs who left Israel. Be that as it may, the larger group should be expected to have had more property. Further, some of the Jews in Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Algeria, etc. were quite wealthy, probably outnumbering the wealthy Palestinian Arabs. So just where Fischbach gets off claiming the Palestinian Arab claims "dwarf" Jewish claims I don't know. Who were these unnamed "Israeli officials" who support his dubious claim??? On the other hand, maybe the Arabs were grossly inflating their pre-1948 assets and merely claiming much more than the Jews did. But Fischbach seems not to consider this.

4) in 1948 nobody spoke of a "palestinian people," least of all the Palestinian Arabs. Consider the testimony of Arab representatives and spokesmen before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in 1946. They saw themselves as part of Syria, bilad ash-Sham in Arabic. So Fischbach is being anachronistic in using a term that the people concerned rejected at the time. They were pan-Arabists and accepted the leadership of Arab states and the League.

5) calls for pressing compensation claims against Arab states for property confiscated when Jews left those states were made many years ago. So the idea is not at all new. Why the Israeli govt never pushed such claims until recently may be for other reasons, such as the increase in influence in Israel of the Jews from Arab lands. Fischbach mentions the WOJAC. This body was calling for such claims to be made back in the 1960s, I believe. Maybe Fischbach should call back his book and do more research using Laskier's sources.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Art E, et al.
I think that there are some problems with Fischbach's claims, not just with Omar. I think that Fischbach's claims are likely to be more influential than Omar's.

Change Agents and Blame Agents

You don't understand, Mr. Friedman. There is a script that needs to play out. Yasir Arafat is a modern-day George Washington. Rachel Corrie is like one of the fallen from the Boston Massacre. (Although funny what John Adams would have made of that). The Government of Israel is The Vatican. Zionists are papists. Books like this can't teach one anything about the philo-semitic roots of the American founding - even though it wasn't written by an early 20th century British apologist for colonialism.

You see, we don't need to look to any of the real facts or study the narratives on their merits. They are getting in the way of Mr. Butler's need to trot out the personal baggage that exists in his own cultural memories and historical identity. And that's what's most important here - at least to Mr. Butler. Jews (and possibly Arabs) need to butt out of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Everything they need to learn about the matter may be lectured to them by those who are granted a superior vantage point by virtue of their anti-McCarthyist and questioning Catholic credentials alone.

Re: Change Agents and Blame Agents

Although your disanalogies are sound and insightful. Just think! The injustice of colonial Liberia! No one mentions that when it comes to their use of The Mother of All Pejoratives.

Wikipedia--just as good as actual scholarship! (Butler)

I see that Mr. Butler is still--amazingly enough!-- upholding Wikipedia as just as good as actual scholarly books. Yes, Wiki to him is just as good as long and detailed and complex and sophisticated scholarly analyses running hundreds of pages, books published by academic presses after the original manuscripts, written by actual trained historians, have been carefully vetted by other historians who are actual experts in the field.

Well, I'll give you this, Mr. Butler-- Wikipedia is certainly quicker and easier to read than all those BOOKS! In fact, it takes practically no EFFORT at all. Just up your alley, I guess.

Of course, you also can't actually learn much that way, Mr. Butler. But, again, learning something in depth, as opposed to stoking and stroking your prejudices, might actually take detailed study and time-consuming READING.

So you just keep on preferring Wiki, Mr. Butler. Yessir. Because as my wife says, my one vice is my enjoyment of shooting fish in a barrel.

Re: Change Agents and Blame Agents

Mssrs. Friedman and Simon,
First of all can we please put aside the idea that history is math. I have cited a number of references, which you choose to forget, dismiss or belittle and my knowledge is inferior to the academics that Dr. Cravatts' criticized. Ultimately you and he think it says more about our minds then our sources. I would say precisely the same about you.

Mathematical truths withstand the test of time because they're impervious to human input, history reflects perception which arises in that electro-chemical lab. It has been known to be swayed by its surroundings. I talked about my personal history so I could be more honest about my received history. I think we're all prejudiced Mr. Simon, so I think it's worthwhile to reveal anything pertinent to the subject, two beautiful Palestinian,Irish American nieces, years of thinking America was the greatest as a kid and then finding out otherwise as an adult,Jewish roommates, friends, life in nyc and suburbia. I'm curious to know how long Eliot Green's family has lived in Israel, as well as any personal connections either of you have to Israel apart from your religion. My grandparents were born in Ireland. Gentlemen, can we agree that a large part of our feelings on this issue arise not from texts or treaties but also from living people as well as our political persuasion away from this topic?

I find the unrelenting hostility evinced by the posters on this topic both distasteful and amusing and I know I'm guilty at times. I cited Hillel not to show off but because the chasm between the ideals of religion and so many of it's most fervent believers is sad.

I agree with George Washington that a strict neutrality must be the basis of foreign policy. It's also the right thing to do.

I love to help the underdog and for a lot of Jews given their history, that seems to be in their DNA. Well in America defending Palestinians is defending the underdog.

Mr. Friedman you wrote about the colonial experience in America and in doing so you did something I often do, we all do, you stayed within your purview. That's largely why I intend to stop posting on this subject because it's limiting a wider view of our world. You neglected to talk about a subject I imagine you know reasonably well, the impact of the arrival of Europeans on the New World. Most scholars believe that 90 to 95% of the natives died within the first 150 years from disease alone, from Brazil to Canada. The surviving Indians were enslaved, brutalized, and forced to abandon their cultures. American Indians did not become citizens until 1924 and their struggle to gain full voting rights lasted decades. All that being said there was a Holocaust Museum in place on the Mall in D.C. before an American Indian Museum opened. I ask you which is more part of the land that we walk upon everyday. And which represents traditional power politics as practiced on Capitol Hill? Germany is guilty of crimes that boggle the mind, is the Holocaust part of the American experience? The Polish, Russian pogroms were hideous so were the Hutu.

I'm an American, I want my country to lose the crown of king of arrogance and hypocrisy. I think our one sided support for the Kadima/Likud party is bad for Israelis,Palestinians and Americans. What's best about America is that in our ideals and in many ways our realities no other country treats its citizens as fairly. I know, other countries are far worse than Israel but no other country is the #1 ally and #1 recepient of $$. Is it too much to ask that Israel treat all its citizens equally; pass a Bill of Rights and do what is in it's best interests and seek a peace with Palestine along the lines of the Geneva Accord?

If I prayed, I'd pray that Pres. Obama would remember his days protesting apartheid-even Olmert has used the word-and remember that no justice in South Africa means the same thing in Israel, no peace.

I've read enough books on this subject but if there's a web site or blog you'd recommend and I find it illuminating I would enjoy sharing what I've learned. I would recommend Bernard Chazelle, oddly enough he's a mathematician.

Re: Change Agents and Blame Agents

Mr. Butler,

I see things differently than you. Note your concern for the American Indians being all but eradicated. I share that concern. Please note, though, that nothing like that has happened to Arabs due to any Israelis. That is a fact. People unfortunately get displaced during wars. That, however, is nothing akin to people being eradicated in large numbers, as happened to American Indians,not to mention Jews.

As for books, read Benny Morris' latest book, 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War. It is well worth your time. It will also disabuse you of some of your prejudices.

As for what you ask the Israelis to do, consider what is possible in a state with a portion of population under its rule that is not only not loyal but which sides with the country's enemies and which bombs buses, restaurants, religious festivals and rites, etc.. No state on Earth grants unfettered rights to those who are not loyal, much less to those at war with the state. Not one, not now and not ever. The states that would do so would disappear.

Notwithstanding, the Israelis do grant substantial rights to the country's Arab citizens, who serve in the government, who have elected officials and who have judges including a judge on the country's highest court. That is not bad; in fact it is rather extraordinary, given the country's circumstances. So, frankly, I think you have raised another trivial point that comes from reading propaganda, not factual accounts.

Re: Change Agents and Blame Agents

You don't want peace Mr. Butler so much as you want Israel, on the basis of its relative military and political power, to be recognized as the party more responsible, and perhaps solely responsible, for leaving the conflict unresolved. Perhaps you assume that peace and brotherhood will automatically follow. Please allow me to reject this formulation as one that is overly mathematical.

Had the allies not gone to war with Germany there would have been a peace of sorts - and at least as many victims of genocide as well. Sometimes taking a stand clarifies the very distinction between epistemologies bred of differing cultural backgrounds that you yourself expound upon! I suggest you entertain the notion that some epistemologies (the Palestinian demand to deny Israelis any right to self-determination) are not compatible with others (Israel's rightful refusal to accede to this outcome). If you need less math, more subjectivity and cultural understanding to understand what is inherently more flawed about a certain one of these epistemologies in comparison to the other, then so be it. Or else be honest and admit that your agenda is reflective of a sense of moral relativism or something even more confusing: an insistence that a relative lack of power bestows a moral legitimacy to one's stances that dare not be resisted - regardless of the nature of that stance and the barbaric acts committed in its name.

The Pack is out !

The pack of h....is out in semi full force unveiling their mettle, including the pseudo gentleman and the faux scholar!
They are out hurling insults, accusations, screeching and shouting but mainly:
-Extrapolating, actually fabricating and falsifying to their hearts ' content stands and beliefs and putting words in Omar's mouth NOT only that he did never utter nor contemplate but mainly that had he believed in them he would have never hesitated to put them out in as many words as would be needed; as, I hope ,the record shows!
The syndrome of painting one's enemy, which is the only thing about which we agree, in one's own image and mentality and transporting one's crimes to him is in full exposure here.
AND
-Restricting their reposts to one single fact , among many that make the FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES, where they believe they can fool, deceive and exploit the un knowledge of the general reader....as they have done, quite successfully, for decades and still often do.
(Although I have to agree that the fact that TWO of their publicly elected prime ministers were the perpetrators of massacres and mass evictions plus murder of defenseless civilians is truly unnerving and particularly damaging to their falsely cultivated image and hence the crazed reaction.)

Nothing NEW here for the general western public support of their whole colonialist edifice was built on a mega lie:” A land with no people for a people with no land.”
But the “no people”, who was always there except for the blinded and the racist/ racially self blinded, came back to haunt them and remind them not only of its existence but, more importantly, that the LIE shall not prevail and the crime shall be redressed and ALL rights regained…no matter how long it takes!

Re: Fundamental Differences

Mr Friedman
The request is for:"the "official proclamation that Jews would be expelled."
Not for the "information" at which ....great ingenuity and inventiness but mainly malicious, not unexpectedly, EXTRAPOLATION has been and is being constantly shown.
The request is for the "official proclamation that Jews would be expelled." in which "official" is the key word.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Omar, you outdo yourself once again

You asked for OFFICIAL acts of the Egyptian government. You have been given them, official acts and laws involving sequestration without trial, economic strangulation and confiscation of property, deprivation of citizenship, and outright expulsion.

The names of the laws and decrees and their dates of passage and proclamation have been given you.
Their devastating impact upon the Jewish population of Egypt, and within a short time, has been shown to you.
This is what happened to Jews at the direction of governments all over the Middle East. The International Red Cross protested. Dag Hammerskold the Secretary General of the UN protested.

Yes, you can continue now to insist that 1 + 1 is 55. But you only continue in that way to shame yourself, and make yourself look like a fool.

Re: The Pack is out !

You make general accusations about the "herd"of dogs", Omar. Leaving aside the vicious insult, for which it is useless to ask for an apology-- PROVE THOSE ACCUSATIONS. Provide chapter and verse and evidence. Where EXACTLY are the lies, where are the deceptions?

Omar, it's not lies and deceptions but FACTS that you can't stand. So you just start screaming insults.

Prove those facts wrong, with actual evidence.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Omar,

Any fair minded person would say that your request for information was answered. The specific materials have been provided so that, if you say that Professor Eckstein is mistaken, you can show that, for example, the proclamation cited does not say what he claims it says. In that it actually does say what it claims, I think you will have a very difficult time.

Again, Omar, there is a case to be made for Palestinian Arabs. However, that does not mean that everything asserted to support Palestinian Arabs is factual. And, it is, notwithstanding your view to the contrary, apparent to anyone who bothers to investigate that the Arab side was not angelic in its treatment of Jews or, frankly, anyone else. And, it is plain as day that the demise of Palestinian Arabs is not unique or unusual.

Re: Arab nomads west of the Jordan

Elliott is back to the old, abused and totally discarded hypothesis that:
"in 1948 nobody spoke of a "palestinian people," least of all the Palestinian Arabs."(Arab nomads west of the Jordan (#126566) by Elliott Aron Green on August 19, 2008 at 5:59 PM)

Evidently it is useless, not for want of any mental capacity or even of common sense on his part but for want of respect for his readers, to ask him whether it is ever possible, or conceivable, for a people, any time any where, to evolve, or rather, going by his implied logic, to spring spontaneously into existence over night , assume a common identity and name and partake, at great sacrifice, in a common struggle against a common enemy invariably defined and identified by one and all as their common enemy, namely Zionism and its colonialist malignant outgrowth ISRAEL!

His hackneyed and innate reply would be that that people is Arab and/or Syrian and/or belongs to "bilad al Sham" !!!


That, all that, would be literally correct, but definitely NOT in the sense he intends and expounds that it nullifies his Palestinian identity!
Unless of course being a Virginian nullifies being of the South of the USA and of being an, USA, American national!
For that, whether Elliott likes it or not, is the exact parallel and analogy.
Palestine is, geographically, part of Greater Syria which is, culturally/nationalistically, part and parcel of the ARAB nation.

I have no doubt he knows that much .

But his ceaseless attempts to mislead, misinform and deceive, at the service of the colonialist Zionist cause, makes him repeat again and again, banking on the assumed and hopefully presumed by him and ilk, ignorance of the non specialist reader , that hyper absurdity: that no Palestinian people existed/exists.

Unless, once again, if you are a Texan you are NOT an American or if you are a Savoyard you are NOT French etc etc.

The deliberate shameless intellectual dishonesty built in this stand is even more apparent in his, some where above, post where he strongly implied that Greater Syria and The Syrian Republic are one and the same!
I have no doubt that he knows the difference.
However the tragic aspect of this sub issue is his repeated attempt to exploit the fact that the general reader would NOT know or would NOT be able to tell the difference and proceeds there from to exploit his lack knowledge of this particular primarily geographic detail!!
(In a childish vein corresponding to the childish assertion: what would anybody call the people of Frusia except Frusians ? And where would Frusians come from and belong to except Frusia??)


Re: Fundamental Differences

Mr Friedman and side kick.
Did any of "...., official acts and laws involving sequestration without trial, economic strangulation and confiscation of property, deprivation of citizenship, and outright expulsion. "
1-officially name Jews as the object of those measures?
2-Is it NOT normal for all states at WAR to have such edicts and proclamations ?
3-And apply and enforce them on and to WHO EVER qualifies irrespective?

Re: Arab nomads west of the Jordan

Omar,

I think the point you raise is not as strong as you believe. The issue is that there was no substantial Palestinian Arab political movement independent of the Jewish political movement. Rather, the Palestinian Arab political movement was a primarily in reaction and opposition to the Jewish political movement. That is a fact which cuts both ways but it is a fact.

Hence, the label "Palestinian" is not an historical label used by Arabs and, most particularly, not an historical label used by Muslim Arabs.

On the other hand, that label certainly applies today although it is not clear that, absent a dispute with the Israelis, that Palestinian Arabs would continue to apply the same label. That may be the case but it is not a certainty any more than is the case with any other group which identifies itself, early on, by means of its struggle - and, if your comment is accurate about anything, it is accurate when it says that Palestinian Arabs define themselves by their struggle.

On the other hand, Elliott is clearly correct in his history. Whether that history matters at this point - or, more to the point, how that history matters at this point - is another question. It is either that such history suggests that Palestinian Arabs formed a lasting nationality in opposition to Jewish nationalism or that such nationality only has meaning in opposition to Jewish nationalism. It is worth noting that the rise of the Hamas movement suggests that the latter is the case, since the Hamas movement has adopted transnational positions of the type held by other Islamist groups.

Elliott would probably argue that the base historic fact in issue shows that Palestinian Arabs have a lesser claim than Jews. That, to me, is a more difficult case to make. I think that the only claim that can be made is that there are two groups where one or both groups are unable and/or unwilling to find a compromise. The issue of who has the right to be on the land is, frankly, a phony issue since, quite clearly, each side of the dispute came and stayed thereafter on the land according to what was permitted by the ruler of the land. That, frankly, is what happens all over the world.

Re: The Pack is out !

Oh wow, Omar. You compare people who actually bother to use facts to debate the relevant issues regarding Israel to wild dogs and/or other animals. How very clever. How brave. How unresponsive and lazy.

Re: Fundamental Differences

Omar,

You almost have made a point. However, note that the Article 3, Paragraph 7, and Article 7 of Emergency Law No.5333 came into being in 1954, not during any war. And, as Professor Eckstein notes, it was enforced from that time, which was before any war.

Further, if, as you suggest, it is normal to pass edicts that expel people during war, that sounds like an odd position for someone who claims that something unusual happened to Palestinian Arabs.

Lastly, the removal of the citizenship of Jews was specific. Not all of the edicts were but that one was.

Re: Fundamental Differences and the MANUFACTURING Process

Mr Friedman(Re: Fundamental Differences (#126595)
by N. Friedman on August 20, 2008 at 1:11 PM)

Your failure to answer my question :
"Did any of "...., official acts and laws involving sequestration without trial, economic strangulation and confiscation of property, deprivation of citizenship, and outright expulsion. "
1-officially name Jews as the object of those measures?"

Means that NONE DID name Jews as you claim which disproves and belies your earlier statement that:

“,In Egypt, there was an official proclamation that
Jews
would be expelled. That sounds pretty systematic to me.”( Re: Fundamental Differences (#126555)
by N. Friedman on August 19, 2008 at 9:38 AM)

In which you categorically state that the proclamation noted “that Jews would be expelled.”

That is yet another case of your and yours propensity and fondness to EXTRAPOLATE to the point of to manufacture and/or to falsify to achieve your ends.
Your joy and side kick’s jubilation in posts # 126584 & 126589 is definitely premature and, if any thing, is an attempt to hide the fact that you “manufacture “ facts as the one mentioned above and then to hide your ‘manufacture” foot prints you try to inundate the issue with unrelated words .
I will NOT respond here and now to the other points in your post which are primarily meant to divert attention from your manufacturing process.


Re: Arab nomads west of the Jordan

Mr Friedman
Is it conceivable that you would ever "think" otherwise??

Pack "solidarity' reigns now supreme irrespective almost always despite some earlier attempts to distinguish your stands!

Re: Arab nomads west of the Jordan

Right. Maybe everyone who disagrees with you is just not conforming or paying sufficient tribute to the opinions that must somehow be held by every Arab Muslim!

Re: Arab nomads west of the Jordan

Do you believe that the dhimmis must always hold the same opinions that you do, Omar? Perhaps you need to reconquer them and demand intellectual submission from them at once! No wavering from the ideas of their betters will be accepted!

Re: Fundamental Differences and the MANUFACTURING Process

Omar,

There was a decree expelling Jews. That is a fact. There were other decrees aimed at Jews but not naming them. They amounted to the same thing.

Re: Arab nomads west of the Jordan

Omar,

In other words, you have no argument against the position I stated. There is a reason for that. Your position is untenable, both logically and factually.

Re: Fundamental Differences and the MANUFACTURING Process

Mr Friedman
Once again kindly document, show, indicate,pinpoint, support your contention that:" There was a decree expelling Jews."
KEY word is JEW NOT decree!

Re: Arab nomads west of the Jordan

Simon
Hot air+hot air+hot air=HOT AIR

Re: Arab nomads west of the Jordan

Mr Friedman
That was a question pure and simple!
However Re your:” Your position is untenable, both logically and factually."

Which position are you referring to?
Could it be?
A:” But his ceaseless attempts to mislead, misinform and deceive, at the service of the colonialist Zionist cause, makes him repeat again and again, banking on the assumed and hopefully presumed by him and ilk, ignorance of the non specialist reader , that hyper absurdity: that no Palestinian people existed/exists.”

OR is it ?
B:”Unless, once again, if you are a Texan you are NOT an American or if you are a Savoyard you are NOT French etc etc.”

OR is it ?
C:“In a childish vein corresponding to the childish assertion: what would anybody call the people of Frusia except Frusians ? And where would Frusians come from and belong to except Frusia??)

Kindly elaborate!