Return to Should Respectable Historians Attend and Speak at Conferences Hosted by David Irving?
Er.. My understanding is that Ms Salzman is not a professional historian, Mr Kirstein
(#43250)
by Don Williams on September 30, 2004 at 9:52 AM
by Don Williams on September 30, 2004 at 9:52 AM
See e.g., http://www.nizkor.org/contributors/salzman-sara.html . A short excerpt:
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"Five years ago, Sara read an article about Nizkor in a 'net magazine. As a Jew, as a descendant of Holocaust victims, and a relative of Shaika Weinberg, founder of the U.S. Holocaust Museum, Sara felt a stong desire to help with this important group. She is a frequent contributor to alt.revisionism, and has been honored by revisionists by being called "some college student in Boston pretending to be a chic [sic] in Ohio" (George Burdi/Hawthorne) and "fatbroad" (Matt Giwer).
Sara is the mother of two children. She is a Strategic Marketing Consultant, Internet Content Developer, Content Evangelist, and "Webutante." Sara has been an active contributor to the Southern Poverty Law Center since 1985 and is a card-carrying member of the ACLU. She has been an active member of the Leonard Peltier Support Group since 1994. She plays the piano, dulcimer, and guitar; knits, weaves, and quilts; cooks gourmet meals; write poetry and short stories; and plays with the family's Corgi, Dylan. In her spare time, she sleeps.
Sara says:
"I've been involved in historical research for as long as I can remember. When I first read about Nizkor, I was amused that there might actually still be people out there silly enought to try and deny the events of the Holocaust.
Of course, I was wrong.
The recent shootings at Columbine High School (just a few miles from my home) have reminded me of how far we have to go, and how important it is to shine the light of Truth on those who hate. And more importantly, to stop the recruiters of hate from poisoning our children."
Sara dedicates her Nizkor work to the people of Stolin, Poland (now Belarus), who were murdered en masse by the Nazis
"
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None of which disqualifies her from discussing history, of course. The fact she has a Corgi, as I do, suggested to me that she was an intelligent person worth talking to.
I will note that she should not assume that everyone else is an advocate like herself. Re her post 6 lines above (dated September 29, 2004 at 11:44 PM)
, I have never posted on alt.revisionism. I had vaguely heard of the Irving trial but did not really notice it until you posted the above article. That is why I'm having to take time to study and sort through the material. To the best of my memory, I have never commented on the Irving matter before.
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"Five years ago, Sara read an article about Nizkor in a 'net magazine. As a Jew, as a descendant of Holocaust victims, and a relative of Shaika Weinberg, founder of the U.S. Holocaust Museum, Sara felt a stong desire to help with this important group. She is a frequent contributor to alt.revisionism, and has been honored by revisionists by being called "some college student in Boston pretending to be a chic [sic] in Ohio" (George Burdi/Hawthorne) and "fatbroad" (Matt Giwer).
Sara is the mother of two children. She is a Strategic Marketing Consultant, Internet Content Developer, Content Evangelist, and "Webutante." Sara has been an active contributor to the Southern Poverty Law Center since 1985 and is a card-carrying member of the ACLU. She has been an active member of the Leonard Peltier Support Group since 1994. She plays the piano, dulcimer, and guitar; knits, weaves, and quilts; cooks gourmet meals; write poetry and short stories; and plays with the family's Corgi, Dylan. In her spare time, she sleeps.
Sara says:
"I've been involved in historical research for as long as I can remember. When I first read about Nizkor, I was amused that there might actually still be people out there silly enought to try and deny the events of the Holocaust.
Of course, I was wrong.
The recent shootings at Columbine High School (just a few miles from my home) have reminded me of how far we have to go, and how important it is to shine the light of Truth on those who hate. And more importantly, to stop the recruiters of hate from poisoning our children."
Sara dedicates her Nizkor work to the people of Stolin, Poland (now Belarus), who were murdered en masse by the Nazis
"
-----------
None of which disqualifies her from discussing history, of course. The fact she has a Corgi, as I do, suggested to me that she was an intelligent person worth talking to.
I will note that she should not assume that everyone else is an advocate like herself. Re her post 6 lines above (dated September 29, 2004 at 11:44 PM)
, I have never posted on alt.revisionism. I had vaguely heard of the Irving trial but did not really notice it until you posted the above article. That is why I'm having to take time to study and sort through the material. To the best of my memory, I have never commented on the Irving matter before.
My Point Stands
(#43253)
by Peter N. Kirstein on September 30, 2004 at 10:28 AM
by Peter N. Kirstein on September 30, 2004 at 10:28 AM
I used the term "professional misconduct" in a manner that was not occupation specific but in terms of demeanor. Perhaps I elevated her to a professional category of assessment that was misconstrued and I think irrelevant to my critique. I am aware but am not concerned about her personal activities.
I believe her charge could and should have legal implications in publicly making a charge of terrorism or terrorist affiliation of an individual.
I stand by my previous inquiry. Where is the evidence and in the absence of such, a public apology should be issued.
On that note, this will be my final word on this matter.
I believe her charge could and should have legal implications in publicly making a charge of terrorism or terrorist affiliation of an individual.
I stand by my previous inquiry. Where is the evidence and in the absence of such, a public apology should be issued.
On that note, this will be my final word on this matter.
Re: My Point Stands
(#43275)
by Sara D. Salzman on September 30, 2004 at 1:38 PM
by Sara D. Salzman on September 30, 2004 at 1:38 PM
Of course it's your "final word. " You've attacked me and put words in my mouth, which is always the best time to cut and run.
I never said Mr. Irving is a terrorist. Those are YOUR words, Mr. Kirstein. I said Irving associates with members of the National Alliance. The proof, as I presented to you very early in this discussion, is that he has addressed the National Alliance. When he spoke at the University of Colorado at Boulder two weeks ago, the western regional director of the National Alliance was present as one of Irving's "bodyguards."
Irving is on record associating himself with Ahmed Huber, a founder of the Al-Taqwa Bank, listed by the Bush administration as laundering funds for Al-Queda and Bin Ladin.
He is on record as associating with Januz Waluz and Clive Derby-Lewis, convicted of assassinating Chris Hani of the African National Congress.
I'd call these shady characters. And I see nothing "vicious" or "unprofessional" about pointing out the public dealings of a public figure.
Nor do I see anything to apologize for, except perhaps for the amount of time I have wasted in trying to enlighten you with facts. Your hystrionics notwithstanding, Mr. Irving does associate with shady characters, and has admitted to doing so. He is a racist, a liar, an anti-Semite, and a falsifier of history. He has also stated that this year was his last "Real History" conference (since they lose him money every year), so I suppose the entire dicussion is moot, as you'll have no further opportunities to damage your own reputation by appearing there again.
I never said Mr. Irving is a terrorist. Those are YOUR words, Mr. Kirstein. I said Irving associates with members of the National Alliance. The proof, as I presented to you very early in this discussion, is that he has addressed the National Alliance. When he spoke at the University of Colorado at Boulder two weeks ago, the western regional director of the National Alliance was present as one of Irving's "bodyguards."
Irving is on record associating himself with Ahmed Huber, a founder of the Al-Taqwa Bank, listed by the Bush administration as laundering funds for Al-Queda and Bin Ladin.
He is on record as associating with Januz Waluz and Clive Derby-Lewis, convicted of assassinating Chris Hani of the African National Congress.
I'd call these shady characters. And I see nothing "vicious" or "unprofessional" about pointing out the public dealings of a public figure.
Nor do I see anything to apologize for, except perhaps for the amount of time I have wasted in trying to enlighten you with facts. Your hystrionics notwithstanding, Mr. Irving does associate with shady characters, and has admitted to doing so. He is a racist, a liar, an anti-Semite, and a falsifier of history. He has also stated that this year was his last "Real History" conference (since they lose him money every year), so I suppose the entire dicussion is moot, as you'll have no further opportunities to damage your own reputation by appearing there again.
Re: My Point Stands
(#43447)
by steve pecheske on October 2, 2004 at 12:36 AM
by steve pecheske on October 2, 2004 at 12:36 AM
Ms. Salzman, I'm sure that, although David Irving has decided to shut down his annual Cincinnati charade, Mr. Kirstein will find other opportunities to damage what little of his reputation remains.
Re: My Point Stands
(#43543)
by Peter N. Kirstein on October 4, 2004 at 8:36 AM
by Peter N. Kirstein on October 4, 2004 at 8:36 AM
Hey, I got an article out of it!
Re: My Point Stands
(#43646)
by steve pecheske on October 5, 2004 at 4:19 PM
by steve pecheske on October 5, 2004 at 4:19 PM
Not to mention 15 minutes of fame.
KKK: I Am Available As A Speaker
(#43649)
by Peter N. Kirstein on October 5, 2004 at 4:45 PM
by Peter N. Kirstein on October 5, 2004 at 4:45 PM
Mr Pecheske,
I wonder if you would be critical of my accepting an invitation to speak before the Ku Klux Klan. Would you be critical of an individual who spoke before a group that you disapproved of or would you be more interested in the remarks that were given.
Let's say my topic before the Klan was:
"From Montgomery to Selma: Heroes on the March."
Would you consider it inappropriate for me to give a talk supporting the struggle against American racism and apartheid?
I will tell you this. If invited, I would accept and give that talk above. I would insist upon a live internet feed that would be uncensored and on Quicktime. I would donate my speaking fee to the United Negro College Fund and Operation Push here in Chicago if they would accept it.
I would also place the text of my remarks on my website.
I'll let you know if I get an invite.
Peter N. Kirstein
I wonder if you would be critical of my accepting an invitation to speak before the Ku Klux Klan. Would you be critical of an individual who spoke before a group that you disapproved of or would you be more interested in the remarks that were given.
Let's say my topic before the Klan was:
"From Montgomery to Selma: Heroes on the March."
Would you consider it inappropriate for me to give a talk supporting the struggle against American racism and apartheid?
I will tell you this. If invited, I would accept and give that talk above. I would insist upon a live internet feed that would be uncensored and on Quicktime. I would donate my speaking fee to the United Negro College Fund and Operation Push here in Chicago if they would accept it.
I would also place the text of my remarks on my website.
I'll let you know if I get an invite.
Peter N. Kirstein
Return to Should Respectable Historians Attend and Speak at Conferences Hosted by David Irving?
by Peter N. Kirstein on September 30, 2004 at 9:07 AM