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Re: Two questions for Lone-nutters
(#86457)
by Mel Ayton on April 13, 2006 at 4:42 AM
by Mel Ayton on April 13, 2006 at 4:42 AM
Grassy Knoll witness Malcolm
Summers stated: "As soon as the motorcade passed I waited for
about a minute then I came on across to the knoll.When I got there I was stopped by a person in a suit with a coat over his arm.I also believe he had a gun under his arm.It looked like a little machine gun to me."
Summers was one of a number of witnesses, including 3
Dallas policemen, who ran into a number of men claiming to be
Federal Officials.Chief Counsel for the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA), Robert Blakey, said that the movements and whereabouts of every member of the Secret Service and F.B.I.were all accounted for and none were in the
Grassy Knoll area.This was one of the most credible, yet puzzling, aspects of the assassination. Attempts to
account for this bizarre event were difficult given the credence
of the Dallas police officers involved, Officer Joe Smith, Deputy
Constable Seymour Weitzman and Sergeant D.V. Harkness.
In the 1990's assassination researcher Chris Mills provided an interesting solution to the mystery of the Grassy Knoll agents.According to Mills it appeared that the denials by the head of the Secret Service that no agent was ever in the
vicinity of the 'Grassy Knoll' was wrong. Mills reported that David Weigman Jnr., an NBC cameraman, told author Richard B. Trask he had ran to the knoll and saw a police officer run up the incline. Weigman told Trask: "I figured he knows somethings up there, so I ran up there. I found myself there with (Secret Service Agent) Lem (Johns) close by, a few feet away.Then I saw people lying on the side, and I saw nothing up there. Lem, sort of, looking around. Couldn't see anything. I knew now I'd better get something. I've got to get some footage. I saw these people
lying on the ground and I took them. I saw a body being pulled to
the ground...."
Weigman then realises he must go after the presidential limousine and returns to the 'camera car'.Other cameramen have stated that Lem Johns rode in this car to the Trade Mart and rejoined his Secret Service unit.
In his testimony to the Warren
Commission Johns stated: "....before I reached the Vice-
President's car (after he left the Secret Service follow up car
responding to the shots) a third shot had sounded and the entire motorcade then picked up speed and I was left on the street at this point. I obtained a ride with White House movie men and joined the Vice-President and .....Youngblood at the Parkland hospital."
Chris Mills maintains that Lem Johns did not testify to his presence in the area of the picket fence because he knew his actions, although creditable under the circumstances, (he was, after all trying to find 'shooters') was against Secret Service procedures thus leaving himself open to any disciplinary
action.In his report, 7 days after the assassination, he fails to
mention these events and he was not to know that, 8 months later, Smith would testify to an agent on the knoll.
Author Gerald Posner attempted to explain these bizarre events and speculated as to what occurred.Posner implied that Policemen Smith, Weitzman and Harkness mistook the credentials of other government workers. There were people from various government agencies in the Dealey Plaza area and it is possible the police officers mistook these government workers for Secret Service agents. Posner speculates that the I.D. was misunderstood. Knowledge of Secret Service, F.B.I. or other government agency identification cards was not as widespread as it is today through the medium of
television and Hollywood movies. The HSCA recognised that Army Intelligence personel were in the area of Dealey Plaza at
the time of the assassination. It was normal practice for military units to be present in an American city when the president visited, and this may account for the intriguing
encounters.
Gerald Posner came closer than anyone in solving an occurrence which lent credence to the claims by Conspiracy
Theorists that the government had a hand in the assassination.The
mystery, however, finally solved by Gus Russo who interviewed Secret Service Agent Mike Howard who had been in charge of security for the Fort Worth leg of the president's
Texas trip.Howard had been told by Forrest Sorrells that Sorrels had
placed security people in all the areas in Dealey Plaza that were
clear security risks, including the area of the Grassy Knoll.Like
Howard, Sorrells would have deputised every government agent he could find including agents from the ATF (the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms), customs, border patrol, reserve police, deputy sheriffs etc.The motorcade route in Dallas was 'crawling' with these people according to Howard.Howard told Russo that technically these people would not have appeared on any 'official' listing of posted officers and that many of them held the standard ATF identification card which were virtually identical to the Secret Service cards, both issued by the
Treasury Department.Russo also spoke to Robert Gemberling, one of
the FBI agents who investigated Oswald after his arrest.Gemberling said he remembered being told that two customs agents had spent their lunch breaks helping with security in the Grassy Knoll area.The two agents were identified.
The 'Oswald' sightings have been examined by numerous researchers.There are too many to list here but I recommend you read John McAdams website for further info.http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Summers stated: "As soon as the motorcade passed I waited for
about a minute then I came on across to the knoll.When I got there I was stopped by a person in a suit with a coat over his arm.I also believe he had a gun under his arm.It looked like a little machine gun to me."
Summers was one of a number of witnesses, including 3
Dallas policemen, who ran into a number of men claiming to be
Federal Officials.Chief Counsel for the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA), Robert Blakey, said that the movements and whereabouts of every member of the Secret Service and F.B.I.were all accounted for and none were in the
Grassy Knoll area.This was one of the most credible, yet puzzling, aspects of the assassination. Attempts to
account for this bizarre event were difficult given the credence
of the Dallas police officers involved, Officer Joe Smith, Deputy
Constable Seymour Weitzman and Sergeant D.V. Harkness.
In the 1990's assassination researcher Chris Mills provided an interesting solution to the mystery of the Grassy Knoll agents.According to Mills it appeared that the denials by the head of the Secret Service that no agent was ever in the
vicinity of the 'Grassy Knoll' was wrong. Mills reported that David Weigman Jnr., an NBC cameraman, told author Richard B. Trask he had ran to the knoll and saw a police officer run up the incline. Weigman told Trask: "I figured he knows somethings up there, so I ran up there. I found myself there with (Secret Service Agent) Lem (Johns) close by, a few feet away.Then I saw people lying on the side, and I saw nothing up there. Lem, sort of, looking around. Couldn't see anything. I knew now I'd better get something. I've got to get some footage. I saw these people
lying on the ground and I took them. I saw a body being pulled to
the ground...."
Weigman then realises he must go after the presidential limousine and returns to the 'camera car'.Other cameramen have stated that Lem Johns rode in this car to the Trade Mart and rejoined his Secret Service unit.
In his testimony to the Warren
Commission Johns stated: "....before I reached the Vice-
President's car (after he left the Secret Service follow up car
responding to the shots) a third shot had sounded and the entire motorcade then picked up speed and I was left on the street at this point. I obtained a ride with White House movie men and joined the Vice-President and .....Youngblood at the Parkland hospital."
Chris Mills maintains that Lem Johns did not testify to his presence in the area of the picket fence because he knew his actions, although creditable under the circumstances, (he was, after all trying to find 'shooters') was against Secret Service procedures thus leaving himself open to any disciplinary
action.In his report, 7 days after the assassination, he fails to
mention these events and he was not to know that, 8 months later, Smith would testify to an agent on the knoll.
Author Gerald Posner attempted to explain these bizarre events and speculated as to what occurred.Posner implied that Policemen Smith, Weitzman and Harkness mistook the credentials of other government workers. There were people from various government agencies in the Dealey Plaza area and it is possible the police officers mistook these government workers for Secret Service agents. Posner speculates that the I.D. was misunderstood. Knowledge of Secret Service, F.B.I. or other government agency identification cards was not as widespread as it is today through the medium of
television and Hollywood movies. The HSCA recognised that Army Intelligence personel were in the area of Dealey Plaza at
the time of the assassination. It was normal practice for military units to be present in an American city when the president visited, and this may account for the intriguing
encounters.
Gerald Posner came closer than anyone in solving an occurrence which lent credence to the claims by Conspiracy
Theorists that the government had a hand in the assassination.The
mystery, however, finally solved by Gus Russo who interviewed Secret Service Agent Mike Howard who had been in charge of security for the Fort Worth leg of the president's
Texas trip.Howard had been told by Forrest Sorrells that Sorrels had
placed security people in all the areas in Dealey Plaza that were
clear security risks, including the area of the Grassy Knoll.Like
Howard, Sorrells would have deputised every government agent he could find including agents from the ATF (the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms), customs, border patrol, reserve police, deputy sheriffs etc.The motorcade route in Dallas was 'crawling' with these people according to Howard.Howard told Russo that technically these people would not have appeared on any 'official' listing of posted officers and that many of them held the standard ATF identification card which were virtually identical to the Secret Service cards, both issued by the
Treasury Department.Russo also spoke to Robert Gemberling, one of
the FBI agents who investigated Oswald after his arrest.Gemberling said he remembered being told that two customs agents had spent their lunch breaks helping with security in the Grassy Knoll area.The two agents were identified.
The 'Oswald' sightings have been examined by numerous researchers.There are too many to list here but I recommend you read John McAdams website for further info.http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Re: Two questions for Lone-nutters
(#86460)
by Mel Ayton on April 13, 2006 at 5:00 AM
by Mel Ayton on April 13, 2006 at 5:00 AM
I have posted this link for those readers who wish to know more about the "Single Bullet Fact" (SBF)http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm
Re: two answers for the conspiracy buffs
(#86542)
by Steve Broce on April 13, 2006 at 1:01 PM
by Steve Broce on April 13, 2006 at 1:01 PM
People who mock the “single bullet theory” often describe the bullet recovered from Connally’s gurney as “pristine” or “unblemished”. It was neither. A “butt end” view of the bullet shows considerable bulging and distortion
Here’s a link to a “butt end” view of the bullet:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ce399.gif
Not very pristine.
Here’s the punch line, John: Failure Analysis Associates recreated the shot and the bullet recovered from the recreation was in BETTER shape than the original bullet recovered from Connally’s gurney.
The myth of the “Oswald impersonator” is another invention of the conspiracy buffs. No, John, it’s not a “known fact” that an Oswald impersonator was running around Dallas. Fact is, there is little persuasive evidence that an “Oswald impersonator” existed.
There were literally hundreds of Oswald sightings that surfaced after the assassination. Many of them were in places and at times that Oswald could have not been. There would have been no reason for an “imposter” to be at these places either. The explanation for these sightings is simple: people make mistakes. Eye-witness testimony is not necessarily reliable. Some people lie to inject themselves into high-profile cases for fame.
Take the Sports Drome gun range sighting. First there was no “Oswald” on the sign in sheet for the day of the sighting. An imposter would certainly have signed in to advance the frame-up. Second, the witnesses did not agree about the weapon that “Oswald” was shooting that day. Some described the weapon as “new and brightly polished” with a Tasco scope. Oswald, of course actually had a dull, weather-beaten Carcano. There was no agreement as to what kind of car “Oswald” was driving when he left the range.
One witness, a worker at the range, actually said he saw “Oswald” at the range AFTER the assassination and after Ruby had killed Oswald. Ask yourself, John, if this “Oswald” was an imposter, what possible motive would it serve to have him appear in public AFTER the real Oswald was dead?
Here’s a link to a “butt end” view of the bullet:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ce399.gif
Not very pristine.
Here’s the punch line, John: Failure Analysis Associates recreated the shot and the bullet recovered from the recreation was in BETTER shape than the original bullet recovered from Connally’s gurney.
The myth of the “Oswald impersonator” is another invention of the conspiracy buffs. No, John, it’s not a “known fact” that an Oswald impersonator was running around Dallas. Fact is, there is little persuasive evidence that an “Oswald impersonator” existed.
There were literally hundreds of Oswald sightings that surfaced after the assassination. Many of them were in places and at times that Oswald could have not been. There would have been no reason for an “imposter” to be at these places either. The explanation for these sightings is simple: people make mistakes. Eye-witness testimony is not necessarily reliable. Some people lie to inject themselves into high-profile cases for fame.
Take the Sports Drome gun range sighting. First there was no “Oswald” on the sign in sheet for the day of the sighting. An imposter would certainly have signed in to advance the frame-up. Second, the witnesses did not agree about the weapon that “Oswald” was shooting that day. Some described the weapon as “new and brightly polished” with a Tasco scope. Oswald, of course actually had a dull, weather-beaten Carcano. There was no agreement as to what kind of car “Oswald” was driving when he left the range.
One witness, a worker at the range, actually said he saw “Oswald” at the range AFTER the assassination and after Ruby had killed Oswald. Ask yourself, John, if this “Oswald” was an imposter, what possible motive would it serve to have him appear in public AFTER the real Oswald was dead?
When you are finished with the comments for this entry, close the window to return to "Lee Harvey Oswald’s Motives".
by Wim J Dankbaar on April 13, 2006 at 3:45 AM