Kevin Baker: What Would Founding Fathers Think of America Today?

Kevin Baker, appearing on 'CNN in the Money' (July 4 2004):

HEADLINE: America Celebrates Independence Day; How Would Fouding Father's View America Today?

GUESTS: Kevin Baker, Dr. Gary Namie, Sandy Baum, Lawrence Kersten

BYLINE: Jack Cafferty, Andy Serwer, Susan Lisovicz, Christine Romans, Allen Wastler

CAFFERTY: ... We were thinking a little bit back to the founding fathers who got this whole the experiment underway about 236 years or so ago and wondering how closely today's America matches the country they envisioned.

To help us figure that out, we're delighted to be joined by historian and novelist, Kevin Baker, who's a columnist for"American Heritage" magazine. His latest book is something called,"Paradise Alley," based on the Civil War draft riots that happened right here in New York City.

Kevin, it's nice to have you with us. Happy Fourth of July.

KEVIN BAKER, HISTORIAN: Thank you. Happy Fourth of July to you.

CAFFERTY: What do you think the biggest surprise would be if the founding fathers could travel through the time machine and drop in to the middle of the U.S. of A on July 4, 2004?

BAKER: Well, there would be a lot of surprises for them. I think possibly the biggest surprise would be what a multiethnic country America has become. After all they lived in a time when it was still a predominantly protestant, predominantly white and white dominated country.

So I think they would be surprised and probably very pleased to see how many people have felt this was a beacon of liberty and came here and able to become -- you know, wonderful, productive citizens of this country.

LISOVICZ: You know, Kevin, what do you think they'd think about the public servants of today? Call me a cynic, but -- you know, when I read this book on Lewis and Clark expedition"Undaunted Courage"

BAKER: Right.

LISOVICZ: Thomas Jefferson spending years trying to educate Meriwether Lewis and funding that great expedition, it just seems like we don't have visionaries anymore in public office for all sorts of reasons. Can you address that? What's changed over the last two centuries, three centuries?

BAKER: Well, you know, I think in a democracy, the people have a great deal of responsibility for what they get. And I think that is one thing that would disturb the founding fathers somewhat, is how passive we've become about a lot of our participation in this democracy. I think they'd be kind of appalled by at most 50 percent voting rates. I think even in terms of the war, they might be upset at how this is being fought by a relatively small number of Americans and how the rest of us kind of get to -- you know, sit back and enjoy these rare hamburgers.

SERWER: Kevin, there's a historian at the University of Pennsylvania, I believe, named McDougal, you probably know his work, who has a book out which talks about the history of America and really how our country was settled and developed by rogues.

BAKER: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

SERWER: And, you know, that's what made America great, people who went out there, Robber Barrons, people who developed the railroad, maybe the internet. What's your take on that?

BAKER: There are great many rogues; there are a great many idealists, too. And in fact, if you get the two together, it's often a very dynamic combination.

SERWER: Right.

BAKER: Look at something like Central Park which is put together by the most idealistic people in New York and the biggest scoundrel of politicians. It was a great result.

CAFFERTY: As you look into the future, and that's a tough thing to do, the current polling of Americans indicates that a lot of people don't think the country is on the right track. Leaving today's short- term political arguments and dialogue out of the discussion, what is the right track for this kind of melting pot of all of us that has developed here over the last 240 years? Where should we be going as we look down the road?

BAKER: Well, it's hard to say. I mean it's -- yes, I -- you know, am a frequent critic of things going on in America and I think that's the role that historians and writers should have. On the other hand, things are just going -- you know, very well in many ways.

You know, it's -- I think we'll be on the right track as long as we keep endorsing the things that have worked so well for us so far. That is, keeping hold of the checks and balances in the system, keeping hold of our civil liberties, being willing to embrace people coming from different countries, being willing to kind of take in -- and that's America's biggest advantage, I think, it that ability to attract the best and the brightest and just the most kind of fervent and dedicated people to from -- you know, the most eager to improve themselves, people from around the world.

I think as long as we can stick to that, and we don't become a xenophobic place, we'll be doing well....