Feb 5, 2011

A Comment on Comments

by Cliopatria

Longtime Cliopatria readers will remember that commenters here spent the Bush years revealing my identity as a radical leftist who sought to give aid and comfort to America's Islamofascist enemies, and yes, the phrase"aid and comfort" was really used. (I haven't been able to track down the one that called for me to be brought before a court martial for treason, but I remember it fondly.) This long exchange was probably inevitable, given that I was invited to join this blog after a long series of attacks on Michelle Malkin's In Defense of Internment; my far-left tendencies were already well known when I first arrived.

Except that they weren't. I declined the label at the time, and I still decline it.

Now, wonderfully, I am revealed by commenters to be a right-wing extremist, the type who probably drinks rainwater and grain alcohol because the Russkies are putting fluoride in the stuff that flows out of the tap.

A suggestion: it may be possible that there are people on the planet who believe some things that are generally associated with the political right, and some things that are generally associated with the political left. It may even be possible that there are some people who don't think the world sorts neatly into precisely two categories of thought, and have no interest in a fight between"the left" and"the right."

If the only or primary thing you have to offer to something that someone else writes is to try to sort what they write into a category and dismiss it with a quick label, you have nothing to contribute. Consider the possibility of a dignified silence.

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More Comments:

Michael Charles Benson - 2/21/2011

"Commander" William Hopwood is still around trolling Chris? This is fantastic news! All is well with the world! Best of luck Commander, fighting to good fight for liberty, equality, and the internment of Japanese Americans.

William Hopwood - 2/6/2011

"Toilet paper. Bath soap. Toothbrush!"

Not those, as you well know. Those who remember your posts on a different blog in your attack Malkin days can attest that one of your tricks was to change the name of another poster (mine as one example) by adding to it your favorite vulgarity for the word "excrement." Also by using the word in reference to the opinions of those with whom you disagreed. Since then, and this blog being the caliber that it is, you seem to have cleaned up your act by refraining from such sophomoric nonsense. Congratulations!

William Hopwood - 2/6/2011

I'll take your word that Mr. Bray served admirably as a soldier and a teacher, Professor. Bully for him. However, I don't find that to an impressive excuse for advocating an action the consequence of which could result in giving aid and comfort to the enemy and further threatening those of our own people who are already in harms way.

You and Mr. Bray obviously disagree, perhaps in no small way because of the self-esteem which appears to hypnotize some by being associated with your profession.

Be that as it may, those of your persuasion seem to feel qualified to assume that your own judgement in such matters is far superior to that of those in high position who are privy to information which exceeds your own, and whose responsibility it is to act thereon.

That's too bad but hopefully the nation will survive despite a Wikileaks-type mentality on the part of an insignificant few.

Chris Bray - 2/6/2011

"Not the least of these was your penchant for using bathroom language to flavor your opinions."

Toilet paper. Bath soap. Toothbrush!

Jonathan Dresner - 2/6/2011

You accused him of "pure hatred" for his country, one which he has served admirably as both soldier and teacher. You can't even be honest about your own positions.

William Hopwood - 2/6/2011

Since it is a post of mine to which you link vis-a-vis the "aid and comfort to the
enemy" remark let's clear the air of misunderstanding by showing the whole of what I said in that connection:

"Rather, the opposite course, and one which you seem well-dedicated to, is to publicly embarrass this country at the expense of the safety and well-being of our fellow citizens who may be in harm's way. Certainly one to give aid and comfort to the enemy, which any citizen should be ashamed of. Why aren't you?"

It was certainly no belief of mine that by one giving "aid and comfort" to our
Islamofascist enemies one might be a traitor or even a "radical leftist." I thought of you as neither a "leftist" nor a "rightist," only as one unwilling or unable to comprehend the logical consequences of the course you seemed to be supporting.

As for the charge of "treason," one can give "aid and comfort" to an enemy without being a traitor. One need only be a true patriot, but ignorant. To be guilty of treason, one must also "adhere" to the enemy while giving "aid and comfort" thereto, and, in so doing, perform an "overt act" which must be testified to by two witnesses. Or one can save all that by confessing in open court.

Mention of your Michelle Malkin days and your ad hominem attacks on that lady and those who supported her position in "In Defense of Internment" reawaken old memories. Not the least of these was your penchant for using bathroom language to flavor your opinions. Although you didn't like her conclusions, I cannot recall an instance in which you could corner Ms. Malkin in an error of fact. Best wishes
in the interest of historical accuracy.

Chris Bray - 2/5/2011

Karen,

Thanks for this. I'm not worried about my feelings -- I'm hoping for better discussion that will contribute to the way we all understand the topics we discuss. Look at this comment to my first post on the militia "mandate," for example. I love this: someone responded to something I wrote, and advanced our discussion by adding a point that I had missed entirely. Great!

I'm hungry for more of that, and happy to be proven wrong or forced to reconsider along the way. But I won't budge for comments that just assign me a political place, or assign me a set of rhetorical boundaries that someone else wishes to impose.

Less reflexive naysaying; more "how can we figure this out together?" I'm sorry to be pissy, but I get so, so tired of the tendency of Internet commentary to channel discussions into the categories of left and right. The world is more interesting, and we have a collection of smart people who can advance our knowledge of it. IIRC, I'm now in my sixth year of being alternately attacked at Cliopatria as a right-winger and a left-winger, depending on the day of the week. I'm not hurt by it; I'm bored by it.

Karen Lofstrom - 2/5/2011

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I reacted too quickly. I'm hypersensitive to arguments that seem to attack the recent health care legislation (in which I have a personal interest, being a struggling freelancer).

It would have helped me put your remarks into context if you had prefaced them with something like, "The health bill was not the one I wanted, but I believe that it's better that the previous status quo. However, I am not willing to accept BAD arguments for its constitutionality."

Or whatever you position is.