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I am guilty of having fed a troll. I do it, occasionally, to get their attention, because I've only ever known one troll who had any sense of restraint. Properly fed, your garden variety troll grows increasingly outrageous until the blustering name-calling exceeds all level of civil discourse and we do not need to be bothered by him, again. Dealing with a garden variety in this case, I had to go to the mat over him and he is history, as they say.
But a word of advice to Cliopatria's readers: my colleagues and I post here without compensation. They are extraordinarily smart, busy academic people. I expect you to treat them with respect. If you demean them, you put your access to HNN's comment boards at risk. Call Miriam Burstein, Rebecca Goetz, or Sharon Howard"Babe" or"Hun" and, if they don't beat me to it, I will serve you to them for lunch. I've seen one of my respected former colleagues frost a troll for addressing him by his first name without permission. Similarly, you had better be a very good friend of mine to refer to me as"Ralphy." At 66, with four earned degrees and a Pulitzer Prize nomination, I'm used to my wife's use of it in pillow talk. Apart from her, the last person who called me that died 50 years ago. We're here for serious and not-so-serious consideration of academic life and historical issues. If you have no significant interest in history, if you are here only for partisan cheap shots or personal abuse, go elsewhere. It's that simple. Now ..., two reminders and some good bets:
Nominations for The Cliopatria Awards close on 30 November. Only five days left to place your nominations. The amazing David Tiley hosts History Carnival XLIV at Barista on 1 December. You can use the form to place nominations of the best of history blogging since 15 November.
William H. McNeill,"Conspicuous Proliferation," NYRB, 21 December, reviews Max Boot, War Made New: Technology, Warfare, and the Course of History, 1500 to Today; and"It Took a Frenchman," The Economist, 23 November, reviews Hugh Brogan, Alexis de Tocqueville: Prophet of Democracy in the Age of Revolution: A Biography. Thanks to Arts & Letters Daily for the tips.
Rob MacDougall,"Bon Appetit," Old is the New New, 23 November, is Rob's"Yanksgiving" meditation, but, if you're like me, you're still feeling the after effects.
There was the Ohio congressman, some years ago, who used to return constituent correspondence that offended him, with a note attached that said: "Some fool has apparently signed your name to this ..."
Jonathan Dresner -
11/28/2006
Wow.
I've seen informal before, but I've never gotten a nickname from someone I didn't yet know.....
My immediate response would be to send the message back with a note suggesting that he be more careful, because you got an email clearly intended for someone else, perhaps a sexual partner....
Ralph E. Luker -
11/28/2006
Good lord! Even with the distance of the Atlantic Ocean, I wouldn't have the recklous gall to refer to _the_ Sharon Howard as "diddles"!
Sharon Howard -
11/28/2006
Tell that to the first year student who saluted me in an email (the very first he'd ever written to me, no less) with 'Hey diddles'.
Jonathan W. Wilson -
11/27/2006
Interestingly enough, I find that I am highly uncomfortable addressing someone by first name if they hold anything remotely resembling a position of academic authority relative to me. That's been true even when they prefer to be addressed by first name, and even when I otherwise adopt a very casual (even flippant) attitude toward them. No matter how many liberties I took around Dr. Lastname, he or she was always Dr. Lastname -- or maybe simply Lastname when not present for the conversation.
Ironically, I think the main reason I liked that formality in college was that I tended to be on much more familiar terms with my professors than most students were. Using a more dignified form of address made that familiarity possible.
Grant W Jones -
11/27/2006
Ben, thanks for your interesting comments. I'm all in favor of maintaining proper boundaries. However, in some fields certain formalities may be recognized as detrimental to communications. You don't want anyone from assemblers to executives being shy about making suggestions on how to improve product or efficiency. You never know where the next good idea will come from.
Ralph E. Luker -
11/27/2006
Well, Ben, feel free to call me Ralph. It is, as you say, contextual. Stephen Xavier Reich, it turns out, was the pseudonym of someone in New York City, who adopted that name exclusively for commenting at HNN and his comments grew increasingly hostile and personal. When barred from commenting here under that name, he returned with a different name and more personal attack. His IP address is now blocked. I want to put formality and distance between whoever that person is and myself. Less egregiously, Grant Jones routinely attacks Cliopatria's group members on his personal and his group blog. We are insufficiently rightwing and libertarian for his taste. He is commonly courteous enough here -- only to go over to his own sites to launch vitriolic tirades against whoever may have set him off here. So long as he's civil here, he's welcome to comment; but there is a kind of two-facedness in what he says here and what he says on his own sites. That causes me to want to keep some distance. I guess I really want people to refer to me as Dr. Luker if there's any likelihood they may want to slip a knife into my back. No "Et tu, Brutes" for me.
Ben W. Brumfield -
11/27/2006
There's a difference between maintaining proper boundaries within a classroom and engaging the wider world in the kind of discussions that happen online.
As Grant points out, different sectors have different workplace cultures, which -- at least in the case of oil and high-tech -- have more continuity with the regions in which the industry originated than their present locales.
Coming from a formal, Southern background, it was difficult for me to address my coworkers (not "colleagues") and superiors by their first names. It was, however, the standard of professionalism within the software world, so I adapted. Were I to receive a professional communication from someone who addressed me as "Mr. Brumfield", I'd assume my correspondant was a neophyte at best.
So, Ralph Luker, how should you and I address each other, given that we're communicating outside our respective professional cultures?
M. I. Ahmed -
11/27/2006
I'm as big a supporter of troll destruction as Ralph, but looking at this case I think there may have been more to it. It seems like the late troll might well have handed Ralph some rhetorical defeats. That doesn't make him less of a troll--but I wonder if that's why he was banned.
Jonathan Dresner -
11/27/2006
"rhetorical defeats" -- what a wonderful way to say that Mr. Reich refused to admit that he was wrong, ever, or to deviate from a party line.
Seriously, though, all of us have been on the wrong end of the facts from time to time. That's life. Incivility, however, when tolerated, only leads to further incivility.
Ralph E. Luker -
11/27/2006
Mr. Ahmed, You're welcome to your reading of the threads. You seem to assume, as SXR did, KC Johnson would object to college support of a panel made up exclusively pro-Palestinian speakers, but that he wouldn't object to one made up exclusively of pro-Israeli speakers? Do you see nothing wrong with SXR's name-calling, relentless ad hominem remarks, and expressions of personal contempt, instead of serious discussion? For my part, I repeatedly referred to him as Mr. Reich, explained why I thought his assumptions of bias on KC's part was simply mistaken, etc. Mr. Reich chose to make me, personally, the issue. He was given fair warning and insisted on calling my hand on the fair warning. And, btw, since we've never met, my name to you is "Dr. Luker."
There is no such thing as a "solution" to the question of address: different environments, relationships and personalities will always have to be negotiated.
Ralph E. Luker -
11/26/2006
Maybe corporate culture on the left coast has solved the problem that some people have with boundaries, but I suspect that it hasn't. Establishing proper boundaries is sometimes a problem both for students and faculty members. Formality and distance is one way of acknowledging the necessity of boundaries.
Grant W Jones -
11/26/2006
It seems a matter of corporate culture. The various high-tech companies that I worked for in California were very informal. The owners, managers and even CEOs would also have been horrified if addressed as "mister" or in some cases "doctor."
At one defense electronics firm my division V.P. held a Ph.D in physics from Stanford, but was a "regular guy" who loved to stop by and chat.
With your students is age the issue? My high school and middle school charges usually refer to me as "Mr. Jones" or just "mister." However, we are social unequals.
Anyways, my addressing you and the other professors is not a sign of disrespect but an acknowledgement of our basic equality.
I hope you enjoyed your Thanksgiving feast.
Grant
David H. Noon -
11/26/2006
I am guilty of having fed a troll. I do it, occasionally, to get their attention, because I've only ever known one troll who had any sense of restraint.
I completely support the feeding of trolls, especially when the meal consists of their own [ahem] on two slices of white bread. Nice work.
Jonathan Dresner -
11/26/2006
"Diversity" to historians means having someone from the chemistry department over for dinner....
Seriously, though, there's a lot of actual difference in academic society. I know professors who'd be horrified to be called "doctor." Unlike some of my colleagues, I don't tell students what to call me, but they're usually formal, even the ones who know me pretty well.
Grant W Jones -
11/26/2006
Well, perhaps not all your students have reached my advanced years many of which have been spent in Polynesia. Please, call me Grant.
The issue of "familiarity" may also be a east coast-west coast thing. I have also notice a difference in attitudes based on that. However, are not academics interested in cultural diversity?
Jonathan Dresner -
11/26/2006
Not all of our students take your liberties, Mr. Jones. It's entirely possible to be collegial without being familiar.
Ralph: I'm sorry, I was away for the last two days, without internet access. Rather, I should say, without internet access I was willing to pay an arm and a leg for....
Grant W Jones -
11/26/2006
"I've seen one of my respected former colleagues frost a troll for addressing him by his first name without permission."
Interesting, here on the Islands everybody is addressed by their first names. I address the professors at the University of Hawaii by their given names, nobody objects. For them to to do so would be a serious faux pas. One of the many reasons I love it out here.
Ralph E. Luker -
11/25/2006
I know. I blushed as I wrote it. It's so _not_ me.
Scott McLemee -
11/25/2006
"The last person who called me that ["Ralphy"] died 50 years ago."
For some reason that made me think of the Johnny Cash line that goes "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die."
