A Different Reading of Muslim Law

by Cliopatria

Lest you think that Imams like Richard Pipes and Edward Luttwack are the last word on Islam's attitude toward"apostates", see: Ali Eteraz,"Obama Islam Smear Changes Stripes," Huffington Post, 12 May. Beyond his close reading of Muslim teaching about descent, Eteraz makes the interesting point that, because his grandfather was Turkish, London's newly elected Conservative Mayor, Boris Johnson, often faces the same kind of smear that Obama does.

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Jeff Vanke - 5/14/2008

one of those letters:

"Islam does not consider Barack Obama ever to have been part of the Muslim community. Apostasy has no relevance here."

If Ingrid Mattson is right, I am glad to be corrected. Unless I learn that there is some school of Islamic thought that disputes her, I will presume that she is right and Luttwak is wrong.

I'm disappointed, though, that so many other credentialed letter-writers fail to take a stand on this most salient point.

Ralph E. Luker - 5/14/2008

I recommend that you have a look at today's NYT's letters to the editor in response to Luttwak's op-ed.

Ralph E. Luker - 5/14/2008

Look: comments are for those, like yourself, with "fresh eyes" to challenge what those of us with "tired eyes" have said. The fact is that we have a very intellectually diverse group of Cliopatricians. Our colleague, Daniel Larison, for example, is somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun. He's also a brilliant conservative voice. We don't oblige him or anyone else to speak to every issue here. Is that what you want? It won't happen because we value freedom of speech, which includes the right not to speak up. And, btw, it doesn't seem to me "tired" to point out that Luttwack was simply wrong about Obama being regarded in the Muslim world as an apostate *and* that, whatever Muslim law might mandate, it is of no practical effect. "Tired" might be reasserting his null issues.

Jeff Vanke - 5/14/2008

As I'm fond of marveling to my kids about something intense, Wooooo doggies!

I'll parse my employ of groupthink for you. I haven't read every response on these posts as of today (Wed.). But as of yesterday, three of you were piling up on Luttwak, by focusing on what it meant about Obama, rather than on Luttwak's points on Islam's treatment of apostates. Zero of you had anything to say in support of Luttwak's column, though I'm sure others of you hold more nuanced, or opposing views, on this question (not part of this subset groupthink). But you three used a reflexive tone and selective counter-arguments, both symptomatic of groupthink. You were concerned about particular issues, and you were not approaching Luttwak's column with fresh eyes, or as a whole column. That's my diagnosis, and I'm sure you disagree.

Jeremy Young - 5/14/2008

Ali Eteraz is a good guy and a really brilliant thinker. We used to blog on each other's front pages back when we both had community blogs, and I still think the world of him. Thanks for highlighting his work.

Alan Allport - 5/13/2008

Also, given that Boris is fantastically - almost Platonically - blonde, it doesn't seem that the tarbrush was applied to his gene-pool very liberally.

Ralph E. Luker - 5/13/2008

Thanks for the additional information, Alan. I'd still say that it's a fairly interesting comparison or contrast, where the critics combine the allegations of both "elitist" and "other".

Alan Allport - 5/13/2008

Eteraz makes the interesting point that, because his grandfather was Turkish, London's newly elected Conservative Mayor, Boris Johnson, often faces the same kind of smear that Obama does.

This is a bit of a stretch. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (Eton, Balliol, former member of the Bullingdon Club), great-grandson of the Minister of the Interior in the government of Damat Ferid Pasha, Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire, is many things; but not exactly a poster-boy for racial discrimination.

Ralph E. Luker - 5/13/2008

And, btw, even if you count me as committed, your threshold for "group think", three of 18, remains pathetic. Do you need to be told again that none of us speak for the rest of us? There are Cliopatricians who do not agree with Ralph Luker or with Manan Ahmed or with Chris Bray. Do you want a law passed obliging all of us to pronounce on every issue? I doubt you'd be satisfied with that. I wouldn't.

Ralph E. Luker - 5/13/2008

You find "group think" simply because I cite a different reading of the evidence? I'll have to remember the implication that any citation I give means that I've endorsed that interpretation! Refusal to acknowledge alternatives really *does* lead to group-think, Jeff. In fact, you need to read your Pipes closer than you have. He claims that Obama is a Muslim. And, btw, you can probably count on some terrorist, Muslim or not, being willing to target *anyone* who is elected president of the United States -- so the whole "apostate" line of argument is -- well, a misleading one, at best. You'd think that there weren't any *real* issues to discuss in this election year.

Jeff Vanke - 5/13/2008

Awesome -- Obama meets *all four* requirements for non-apostasy, which means he ought *not* be targeted for murder on the basis of apostasy! (I only wish I had grounds to believe that no significant group of Muslims would ever pursue that sentence in a case like this.):

"No call to prayer in the ear, not raised as a Muslim, born to an atheist father, and then abandoned to a Christian mother both by father and his family, equals not Muslim. Obama is right to say he had no religion until he became a Christian."

And thanks, Ralph, because now we're up to three Cliopatriarchs, enough to say, "groupthink."

And so far, I'm voting for Obama. Luttwak and others aren't claiming here that Obama is Muslim. Even if they actually want to use this apostasy bit to give cred to the Obama-is-Muslim lie, Luttwak's column gives lie to the lie, in highlighting Obama's choice for Jesus.