LBJ, Nixon, & Czechoslovakia

The LBJ Library recently released the final batch of telephone tapes, covering the last eight months of 1968. (The President also taped meetings in 1968; most of those tapes remained unprocessed.) Over the next few weeks, I thought I would post excerpts and transcripts of some of the more historically significant phone calls.

Today’s somewhat lengthy clip comes from a late-night phone call between LBJ and then-GOP presidential nominee Richard Nixon, a few hours after Soviet ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin informed the President that Warsaw Pact troops had invaded Czechoslovakia.

LBJ’s handling of the Dobrynin meeting has attracted strong historical criticism, and nothing in this clip challenges the consensus that the President seemed more interested in achieving a summit meeting with Aleksey Kosygin than addressing the topic that had prompted Dobrynin’s 8pm visit to the Oval Office.

But the clip also offers a few other interesting themes: (1) a President remarkably unsympathetic to the plight of the Czechs; (2) lengthy discussions between Johnson and Nixon about how the invasion proved the need for a firm Vietnam policy; and (3) Nixon’s typical hypocrisy, as the man whose campaign would work behind the scenes with the South Vietnamese to scuttle the Paris peace talks promising LBJ he would put the country first on foreign policy, as he implied to the President that Hubert Humphrey was placing his political priorities ahead of the national interest.

The first part of the clip is below; the transcript and second part of the clip are below the fold.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: For the past several weeks, we have been exploring with them [the Soviets] a good many subjects of mutual interest, some of which I have discussed with you—

RICHARD NIXON: Yes.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Some I haven’t, because they just came up in the last day or two. But one of ‘em’s the peaceful uses of nuclear energy, and one of ‘em’s the missile, offensive and defensive, missile situation.

We’ve been trying to set dates [for a meeting].

[Break.]

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: They have given us no indication of anything like this. We were greatly concerned about their recent conferences. But only yesterday we had other messages from ‘em. When I got off the plane last night in Detroit, I had a rather friendly message from ‘em.

But they moved with lightning speed tonight.

RICHARD NIXON: Mm-hmm.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: And we—

RICHARD NIXON: Soviet troops as well as the . . .

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: East German and Polish.

RICHARD NIXON: They’re all in it, huh?

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Yeah, and I don’t know who else.

RICHARD NIXON: Yes.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: But they had their meeting, their Presidium today—two or three hundred—and . . .

Our people have been concerned that this little nation was shoving ‘em down. These conferences would be too much for them [the Soviets] to stand, and they would have to respond.

RICHARD NIXON: Mm-hmm.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: So, we’ve kind of got—we don’t know, something [on] the order of Hungary [in 1956] on our hands.

RICHARD NIXON: Yes.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: We do not know, we do not believe that the Czech government asked for this. We think that’s incorrect in their [the Soviet] statement to that effect.

We received their statement with utter dismay, and I said to him—I couldn’t understand all he said. He speaks very broken English.

RICHARD NIXON: This is [Ambassador Anatoly] Dobrynin?

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Yes.

RICHARD NIXON: Yes.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: But I summarized it by saying, “Well, it effectively says that your troops are going into Czechoslovakia, and that they’re doing so at the request of the Czech government, and you’re saying to me that it’s not a matter that affects our national interest.”

“I have expressed to you, before, our feeling about situations of this kind (meaning aggression). The Secretary of State talked to you just a few days ago, at my direction, to tell you how we felt about what you were doing in Czechoslovakia, but that we were not the cause of what the Czechs were doing. We were not instigating it or inspiring it. The Secretary spoke with full authority when he told you that we believed in freedom, and so on and so forth, independence. He spoke with my knowledge, and at my direction, and with full authority. And he spoke the truth, [that] we were not agitating.”

He [Dobryinin] said yes, he understood that.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I got a message last night that was a very conciliatory one, saying that they were ready to announce meetings about these other two or three or four subjects, and that they were—

RICHARD NIXON: This is along the lines that [Dean] Rusk suggested, that they [the Soviets] couldn’t tolerate this, really. When we talked at your ranch, there, the Secretary said that he didn’t really believe the Soviets would let this go by.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Yes. That’s right; that’s right. We had been concerned about that, and—

RICHARD NIXON: I know you had.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: We didn’t think that a big fella can sit there and let a little fella spit in his face, and slap him, and then just—he might clean it off and walk away, but he won’t forget it.

Evidently, they were buying a little time, and evidently they went back and called their meeting of their cabinet, their people, and evidently they concluded that they had to go—the press, I guess, kept showing freedom, and they thought that [Alexander] Dubcek [the President mispronounces Dubcek’s name] could control ‘em, and quiet ‘em down, and they [the Czechs] didn’t do it, so I guess they just decided to act.

Now, we’re really not sure—

RICHARD NIXON: Yes.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: These are the most fragmentary reports—

RICHARD NIXON: Yes, that’s right.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: And I didn’t know that I even ought to bother you. On the other hand—

RICHARD NIXON: I’m glad you did—

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —the Vice President was at the [National] Security Council, and I thought you ought to know it, because—

RICHARD NIXON: I appreciate that.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —if you’re kept informed all the time, you can at least—

RICHARD NIXON: Well, I won’t say anything until I, you know, of course, hear more, and I’ll, of course, let the Secretary know, or you . . .

It seems to me, though, that this strengthens your hand on what you said on Vietnam, too.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I think it does two things, Dick. I think it shows you—and I think this is an appropriate comment. I don’t know, I’m not putting words in your mouth—

RICHARD NIXON: No, no.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I’m not running your campaign, by any means. Don’t get disillusioned.

RICHARD NIXON: I understand.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: But I’m not going to trick you, either. I’m going to be fair with you, because there’s too much at stake, or I’d be running myself, if I thought that . . .

RICHARD NIXON: I know.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: But I think this shows the folly of professors—

RICHARD NIXON: Heh!!

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —trying to write into a platform strategy and tactics—

RICHARD NIXON: Right—

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —and whether you stop bombing, or whether you don’t stop bombing—

RICHARD NIXON: That’s right—

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —and what are they going to put in there about Russian tanks? What are these goddamn pink sympathizers going to say about these goddamned troops that are crossing the borders? Have they got a plank on that? What are they recommending there?

I think that your position is just as sound as mine was when I said that politics stops at the water’s edge. When President Eisenhower starts to Japan, or when he starts to the Soviet Union, or wherever he goes, he goes with the one voice, the spokesman of the American people—

RICHARD NIXON: Right.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: And as long as he’s President, Adlai Stevenson and his advisory committee—I’m not going to pay one goddamn bit of attention to what they say about foreign policy and how it’s conducted. Only one man can conduct it.

Now, your position has generally been, “I don’t want to subscribe, and don’t subscribe, and don’t embrace, everything that’s said or done, except this: Till January the 20th, it’s that man’s responsibility. After January the 20th, it’s mine.” And . . .

RICHARD NIXON: You may have heard at the VFW, I said that . . .

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Yes, they told me.

RICHARD NIXON: My God, when the President of the United States travels, or anything, he’s our President, and we should have respect, you know?

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: That’s right.

Well, you know, all of us . . . you learned down in Latin America [in Caracas; Nixon guffaws]—anybody, by God, can—

RICHARD NIXON: You were out to meet me at the airport. I remember.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Anybody—you see, a lot of this stuff in this country has been encouraged by our own people.

RICHARD NIXON: Exactly.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: One of . . . Our late friend Bobby used to say the President and the Vice President are not free to go anymore. And that was a suggestion to go out and keep ‘em from traveling.

RICHARD NIXON: Yeah.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: And that’s . . . that’s it.

But anyway, on this thing: I think it’s a very appropriate comment [for you to say] that, “People get in deep water—and I’m very glad at what our [Republican] committee did, and our people did, in saying that we’re going to reserve the right to give our judgments and our opinions, but we’re not going to put ourselves in a straightjacket or put our leaders or our negotiators or our country at a point when people are going to try to take advantage of it.”

And I don’t know—and I’m very honest with you, I don’t know how much they’re listening to [George] McGovern and [Eugene] McCarthy tonight [at the Democratic platform committee].

RICHARD NIXON: Yeah.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: But it’s damn funny to me that they [the Soviets] selected three days before the convention—

RICHARD NIXON: Yeah.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —to start biting off a little hunk.

RICHARD NIXON: A helluva thing.

As a matter of fact, let me say this, that on this—that I don’t give a goddamn what the politics is, and I hope, I’m sure Hubert [Humphrey] will feel the same way. But . . . And I know how you feel about the whole peace issue. But we’ve got to stand very firm. And I won’t say a damn word that’s going to embarrass you. You can be sure of that.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Oh, I know that. I know that.

[with Nixon concurring] I think, though, that it’s all right for you to say that this concerns you, that it dismays you, and you were always concerned with aggression, that you don’t know the extent of it, and you don’t know the details of it, but the President did call you, and the President did outline to you all the facts he had . . .

And that the President will no doubt have other statements to make, and as he makes ‘em, why, you’ll follow ‘em, and consider ‘em, and so forth, but that you’re not trying to second-guess the thing, and you don’t want anybody to get the idea that there are half a dozen Presidents that are calling the signals here on foreign policy. And that’s what you made clear at Miami [at the Republican convention], and that’s what you’re going to make clear till you’re elected.

RICHARD NIXON: Yeah.

Let me ask you this: can you keep—just talking very candidly—can you keep your Vice President and others to keep them firm in this thing? Because, you know, to hell with the goddamn election, we must all stand firm on this.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: That’s right.

RICHARD NIXON: You know, I don’t think we’re going to go to war, but we’ve got to stand firm.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Very frankly, I don’t know. That’s the honest answer. I just plain don’t know.

RICHARD NIXON: OK.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I have—

RICHARD NIXON: Well, I stand firm.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I have done it up to now. I think it would be the best thing for the country, and I have said to them that. And I have furthermore said that, in my judgment, if they didn’t do that, that you would murder them with it. That you would say—

RICHARD NIXON: I think that’s true.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: That you would say, “There’s a time—here in a time of crisis, you goddamn fellows tried to suck up to these folks.” And when you look at the polls this morning, it’s 61 to 24—

RICHARD NIXON: I—

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —against stopping the bombing. And I look at my two son-in-laws out there [in Vietnam], and I tell ‘em to lay down your plane, keep it grounded, we won’t let you use it, and they say, “OK, what are you going to take away from them [the DRV]?” And I said, “Nothing; we haven’t talked about that.”

Well, they’ll say, “Screw ya’.”

RICHARD NIXON: That’s right.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: And these boys are coming home someday.

I got 32 applauses in 41 minutes last night [in his Detroit speech]. And I had a standing ovation when we went in; I had a standing ovation about halfway through my speech. I had a standing ovation at the end. I had 31 applauses.

And, by God, there wasn’t a paper in the United States that mentioned it.

RICHARD NIXON: Well, the bastards, you know, like the goddamn New York Times—they don’t print the truth. That’s all.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: That’s right. That’s right.

RICHARD NIXON: They don’t print the truth.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Well, anyway, I think you can . . . You have nothing to be—you can—

RICHARD NIXON: Well, I won’t—

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —you have every reason to be proud of what—

RICHARD NIXON: Let me say—

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —your platform—

RICHARD NIXON: I won’t take any advantage of you.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Oh, I know that. I know that. I wouldn’t be—

RICHARD NIXON: Naturally, because we’ve got to do the right thing—

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I wouldn’t be calling you. I’m going to keep you informed—

RICHARD NIXON: I appreciate it.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —just as much as I keep anybody informed. RICHARD NIXON: Yeah.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: And I’m going to tell you everything that affects the country.

RICHARD NIXON: Right. Now, tell me this: in the morning, is the best one for me to call Rusk?

Is he the guy that will know what’s going on?

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: He’d be very good. Rusk always. And he’s the best one in the government.

RICHARD NIXON: Good. Good. Good. All right. I won’t bother you, but I may give him a call.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Anytime you want to, I’m free. So you just call me, or call him, whenever you want to.

RICHARD NIXON: Right. And the main thing, Mr. President, don’t—just speaking of the country—don’t let your Vice President get off on this.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I’m going to do my best, but as you know—

RICHARD NIXON: He’s under pressure, I know. But he mustn’t go—

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: I hope I can do as good a job as you did in Miami, but I would doubt it.

RICHARD NIXON: Yeah. But these fellows, you know, damn it, these fellows—McCarthy and this bunch, Mr. President—God damn it: they’re wrong! Wrong.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: Well, it just shows how asinine it is to say to these communist people that we’re not going to do anything about your aggression in Southeast Asia, and while you’re doing it, by God, they start moving into Eastern Europe!

RICHARD NIXON: That’s right. And they’re moving real strong.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: And they’ll be moving into Berlin the next day, if they think they could get by with it. And here we are talking about pulling our troops home, and here we are talking about—

RICHARD NIXON: Stopping the bombing.

PRESIDENT JOHNSON: —that we can’t be policemen. And we’re going to talk about stopping the bombing. And we got to bring our boys [home], and we can’t be policemen of the world.

Well, hell, if we want to turn it all over to them, that’s one thing. But the American people didn’t say so, in 61 to 24 [percent], yesterday.